Koozali.org formerly Contribs.org

Webmin on e-smith?

Henrik

Webmin on e-smith?
« on: October 13, 2003, 01:27:10 PM »
Hi

Will an admin tool like webmin (www.webmin.com) work on SME5.6? I have installed it once, and it did run on the test server, but I scratched the server again as I had to use it elsewhere.

My concern is e-smiths use of templates, is that a regular linux feature or is it an e-smith speciality?

Regards Henrik.

Terry

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #1 on: October 13, 2003, 02:41:46 PM »
1 word, Don't!  Do a search on webmin and you'll see many reasons why.

Byte

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #2 on: October 13, 2003, 02:42:09 PM »
The Template feature is something e-smith does...


Why would you want to use webmin?? when e-smith has it's own interface

Byte

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #3 on: October 13, 2003, 03:59:26 PM »
Utter rot, I run a modified 1.110 on a 6.03 beta box. If you want to cope with the web interface of 6.0 or 5.6 thats fine, but some people need to work. It's the ONLY way to make ESmith palatable and commercially acceptable.

I dont like Webmin but the MAS box commercially available from Mitel is handicapped by lack of thought, design credibility and intelligent reaction to functions that ship WITH the distro.

Take QMail and Samba. There are easily flaggable options that a cgi that takes 5 mins to write could be made to work but in two years all we've had with ESmith is port forwarding added....

Web frontends are childs play. Very very simple.

I love ESmith - Dan York and I worked together at Linuxcare and its SO close to being exactly what people need. It's so close yet so far.

Dick

---

email: dick@dickmorrell.com, website: www.dickmorrell.com
Award Winning author - SmoothWall - Linux Format Award Winner 2001-3, PC Pro finalist 2002.

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #4 on: October 13, 2003, 04:44:59 PM »
Any chance then, Dick, that you could go to the far end, and start fixing?
And I don't mean the near far end. I mean the FAR FAR end....

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #5 on: October 13, 2003, 04:55:22 PM »
none at all I'm maxed out. The daft thing is all this would take would be some senior ESmith package maintainers, toilet roll, food and good coffee. Lock them in a bunker for a week with a wishlist and they get a present. The keys to a new revenue stream and the keys to a prosperous future. They'd get the kingdom of heaven.

What do I know ? I only made about seven times more revenue from web based distros than Mitel made from ESmith last year.

I love ESmith but it has all the forward movement and motion and passion of a frog squashed by a lorry.

There is so much revenue to be made too. Shame that their channel is so lethargic and so badly trained. They are so damn close and there isnt much I wouldnt do to sort it but Mitel dont return calls and emails.

If I look at my Mitel 6.0 boxes they run a third faster than stock 6.0, they're tightened to hell with automated security procedures, SpamAssassin is installed, Perl upgraded, Apache upgraded and tied down, PHP upgraded, webmin cut the hell down and the bulk domain and some third party add ons added. I've added in a lot more Samba functionality, support for CUPS and also X509 VPN server certificate creation with road warrior support (that works).

Sure I could have done this with RedHat but having met some of the board of RedHat I'd rather trust my cat to be a technical leader of the new free world.

Mitel could make a FORTUNE if they just got a big sheet of paper, listened to people and delivered a product on time. This stuff we have in beta 3 is plain crud and it takes an hr to make it into a product. It's laziness. Sure Charlie will slap me down to size but hell thats what I'm here for :) I had the SAME discussion four months ago with a Mitel engineer who worked with me at VA Linux and he was also lost for answers once he got less cocky. They could have the world on a plate all for the sake of being a little more switched on. I'm sure their shareholders would love the increased revenue and the increased dividend return.

Dick

Jens Kruuse

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #6 on: October 13, 2003, 10:41:57 PM »
Dick,

You may have technical savy, but you come across as an arrogant and very, very bitter man. Lighten up a bit - Charlie & co were not the ones who "stole" SmoothWall away from you. I can't help wondering what exactly possessed you to post your trolls here in the first place?

To paraphase you: "I love this piece of crap developed by moronic slugs who have done nothing with a product (RH) I distrust". Riiiiight. :)

/Jens

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #7 on: October 13, 2003, 10:51:20 PM »
Stole SmoothWall ?? I sold SmoothWall... Wasn't trolling just stating a fact Jens. I suggest you check your information. I sold with attornies and auditors my majority shareholding. I'd watch your step discussing something you know VERY VERY little about. I made a nice pile too. Enough not to work for a very long time which considering three years of giving away and funding OpenSource is pretty good going.

No-one is trolling - only you. If you're looking for a rise thats cool you'll get one.

This is a technical fact the ESmith interface is handicapped by the ability of project leads to push it - basic fact. If a user with some common sense can extend the use of the system at the command line how tricky is it for a company to add value via a cgi. Thats the question Jens. Lets not try and be clever or start a flame war.

We're talking technical features NOT trolling.

If you need an adult to help you with the previous postings put your hand up.

Jens Kruuse

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #8 on: October 14, 2003, 01:38:54 AM »
I stand corrected. The fact is, that nobody "stole" SmoothWall from Dick. His posts were not trolls, and my attempt to paraphrase him was sorely lacking in accuracy.

/Jens

Ed Form

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #9 on: October 14, 2003, 03:07:06 AM »
Jens Kruuse wrote:
>
> I stand corrected. The fact is, that nobody "stole"
> SmoothWall from Dick. His posts were not trolls, and my
> attempt to paraphrase him was sorely lacking in accuracy.

But it would be really good if he stopped posturing and put all these wonderful improvements he brags about into the same public domain as he took SME from to start the excercise - or would that compromise his ability to look like a super hero?

Ed Form

Boris

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #10 on: October 14, 2003, 04:05:09 AM »
Dick!
I've already heard enough of your insulting barking on the smoothwall ground.
Your attitude made me switch from it to SME and IPCop.
If you don't like SME, go ahead and make it better, then share your innovations.
Otherwise, just shut up keep on leaching quietly.
Boris.

P.S. No, I do not want to be polite with this dick. I tried once before and it didn't work.

P.P.S For all other forum readers: please ignore this post. Its not intended to start the wholly war or flame.

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #11 on: October 14, 2003, 05:13:51 AM »
Well, Mr Morrell, I must say that you're a rather well known individual. I have associates that regard you significantly lower than fly blown canine faeces. I'll admit to rapidly losing my struggle to keep an open mind on you personally. I have been told of your willingness to resort to threats of physical violence when faced with the possibility of losing an argument. I've been forwarded emails that supposedly originated from you, proporting this.
Please don't hold back in replying to anything on this list. I need a few more examples of your flowing prose and witty reparte to compare with the examples I already have.
I know of people who refuse to let smoothwall in their businesses because of your association with the project. I also know of renewed interest in it since you left, so perhaps it is your greatest contribution to smoothwall.
Rather than bring this decrepit operating system up to speed with your deft brilliance and intellectual prowess, I would request that you utilize your rights under the GPL and fork it.  Prove to the community that you're not just a windbag by forking off.
Alternatively, you could punish us by denying your glowing contribution to this project. I think we're pretty much unworthy of any help, advice or project leadership that you could offer. Yes, actually, I'm damn sure of it.
I'm also of the opinion that no-one would be able to appreciate fully your contributions, if you were to stoop so low to make them.
Perchance you would be better served on a project devoid of interaction with lesser beings?
I'm sure I could find no short list of people who could offer an indication of the direction you should take.
So, rather than dilute your brilliance in the sea of

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #12 on: October 14, 2003, 05:21:07 AM »
e-smith contributors, would it be possible for you to demonstrate your ability in another area? I hear Iraq is in need of leadership at the moment.
Don't forget your Union Jack waistcoat.

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #13 on: October 14, 2003, 05:33:37 AM »
So a thread about a server process manager and the use of cgi's in the administration and automation of processes turns into a flame war.

Rather sad when actually ESmith is a cool product that I've used for three years in various remanufactured guises and sold in MAS form.

Andy - is this usual fare for you to behave like this or who do I sue ? I presume you attacking people over a perl script or a reasonable discussion over hows best to flag and turn on a system call or stop and start a process.

Regarding your comments on SmoothWall, I support IPCop with hardware and software donations. I also put more than you probably earn a year into supporting OpenSource projects. It's called putting back. Regardless of what you think of me (and judging by the fact you hide behind a hotmail address and got an erection typing that) you haven't the balls to stand up and be counted. No surprise there then.

Congratulations on spelling faeces correctly. You gained an extra point. Now was there a valid point to your post or do you troll for fun. I was hoping someone would say WHY they assumed webmin as a service on a non standard port using the redhat/esmith perl base was non sensical or insecure. I was hoping someone might point out issues with base rpms or with qmail borking. I didn't expect to find someone like you with the maturity and ability of an amoeba lurking.

As for companies not using SW - millions do. You're in a very very very very dust sized particle percentage. If it wasn't for me getting off my arse and standing up and putting my money where my mouth was there would be millions of networks all over the world not benefitting. I doubt the people who make McDonalds are out for plaudits or culinary awards. Doesnt stop them serving 30bn burgers  a year and dining out on the fiduciary benefits. I've made a lot of money from SW and associated technologies and a lot of it has gone straight back into funding community projects, charitable donations and making a difference in learning. Attack me if you will but all the time you do it with such crass punctuation, language and utter BS references you gain no credibility. I on the other hand have the credibility with the peers who I work with in the OpenSource industry. In fact I've been working with Linux Journal today on a new Iraqi project and I've just come back from giving two talks on OpenSource and security to two major universities. People listen and give qualified argument, you on the other hand represent the unwashed fragrant GPL troll who has nothing to add but plenty of volume.

Now back to the topic - why do you think webmin replacing the frankly dated and poor template based logic in ESmith or a replacement written in perl/php wouldnt help ESmith gain plaudits, and a place at the table where they deserve to be. A revenue stream for Mitel beckons if they can grab it. And say what you like about me there is only one unfunded Linux OpenSource house thats made the profits no-one else has and I founded and spent 20 hrs a day developing it.

Either stop trolling and being abusive and add or take this offline or come over and do it in person over a beer. I doubt you'd have the balls.

Dick

Brian

Enhancements to e-smith (was Re: Webmin on e-smith?)
« Reply #14 on: October 14, 2003, 06:29:05 AM »
Dick Morrell wrote:

> actually ESmith is a cool product that I've
> used for three years in various remanufactured guises and
> sold in MAS form.

How/where can we obtain the source code to these improvements to e-smith?

Brian

Peter

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2003, 03:22:58 AM »
What and absolutely splendid ambassador you make for your country, an inspiration to the rest of us mere mortals. Jolly good show! Yes! Jolly good show.

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2003, 07:05:00 AM »
Dear Mr Morrel,

Out of a total of 1288 words so far in this thread, 359 of them are dedicated to expounding your achievements. Just on 27.9 percent.
351 are dedicated to pointing out the downfalls of e-smith.  Just on 27.2 percent.
That is approximately 55.1 percent of your total contribution to the e-smith forums.
The rest is your defence of yourself and other sentences unable to be broadly categorised
Having read these forum posts reasonably regularly for the last three years, you are the first person I have found who needs to tell us what he has done previously and promote your ability, extoll how bad e-smith is and how much better it could be, yet, I fail to find ANY contributions to e-smith  in any form from you.  No .rpms or how-tos.
Not one contributor has ever done this to my knowledge.
The only references about you on the e-smith.org forums are not exactly complementary.

Why is it that you find the need to promote yourself and your accomplishments?
Previous experience with others having a similar nature have shown them to feel unappreciated. They try to make up for something missing.
This of course doesn't mean you have similar motivation.
The people that I respect in this forum contribute, or answer questions.

I have been informed of your general reputation long before this time. Trolling, maybe, but I just had to find out if you would rise to the bait.
Does anyone think that it has happened?

Are you really like I've been told?  Apparently so. My peers tell me that so far, you've not actually threatened to sue me, or physically attack me, so I'm not doing so well.
I've got time to see what happens though.

I find your references to my abuse, crass punctuation, language and utter BS references rather ironic, coming from someone who makes up words like "non sensical" and can't use question marks or commas correctly. I'll save you further embarrassment on that front by not looking any deeper.

All I have done is to report back to you largely what has been told to me by other people.  Your replies suggest a lack of comprehension of my post. I haven't attacked you at all.
I have associates who don't like Smoothwall because of your association with the project. I myself do not use it. I'm quite happy with my e-smith server being PIXed off from the majority of the Internet.

As for me "hiding behind a hotmail address", I fail to see how it protects me from anything except spam. Hotmail is a throwaway address. I use it for filter practice.
I'll make a special filter for mail from you if you'd care to send me anything to that address.

As for having balls, because you're in another country I'll not extend to you my normal practice in these matters. When I next go to England, I will knock on your door, identify myself, remind you of this conversation and offer you the opportunity of a beer or alternatives. The choice of which will be up to you.

Regards,
Andy MacDonald

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2003, 12:27:08 PM »
P.S
Spelt your name wrong.
Sorry about that.

Peter

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2003, 01:20:36 PM »
Right then Girls, can we get back to the subject now please?



ta,

Peter.

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #19 on: October 15, 2003, 02:13:39 PM »
Troll lol.

So were you going to answer my question about the practicalities of a better cgi based management system or maybe why you think Webmin (ver 1.110) running in a modified form on a ESmith 6.0beta system identified for install purposes as RH7.1 is dangerous or unrequited ?

I thought that was the topic.

Or carry on trolling you schmuck.

Looney Tunes

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #20 on: October 15, 2003, 03:59:58 PM »
Simply amazing. If only all this energy had be expended into programming.

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #21 on: October 15, 2003, 04:08:34 PM »
My thoughts exactly. I've spent last 4 hrs looking at how best to use new Samba libraries and some cool perl tools to increase the domain management and roaming profiles in a modified interface I can release as a mod. Better spent time than Mr Macdonald has just shown. Hidden agenda and boy what a dickhead.

s lord

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #22 on: October 15, 2003, 07:57:10 PM »
Eeeek!
I really hate to drag this thread to life, but its only my 2nd post I I wouldn't want anyone to think I wasn't searching first!!!

So:  
Regardless of many other 'technical' aspects disussed so far!  
Has ANYONE got the necassary scripts 4 Webmin!

Personally I use UNIX/Linux because of the standards.  This makes the custom-script thing a bit of a pain and unfriendly.  (IMHO)

However, I see the point of how the scripts work.  
I also find lots of missing things from the web interface and no easy way to fix it remotely.  

E-Smith does a lot of what I want.  It can be modified to achive a bit more but I also have to admin lots of other things!  All of these which run on linux/linux/freebsd/...  can be used with common interfaces.  This means the time I invest on configuring something under something like WebMin is time well invested.  In that WebMin has become a defacto standard for me.  

If Debian want to move some of the /etc files into one directory and RH another I don't care because the distto specific WebMin will take care.  

I particularly don't like using distro specific tools because when they go wrong you are in a bit of a black hole.  I'd quote an example from Mandrake and shorewall but I fear that may dig up some negative aspects from the thread so I'll leave it at that :D

However, for me it would be a great bonus to have webmin on my SME server.  It would be even better if it told you which files were being modified and services restarted :D

Michiel

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #23 on: October 15, 2003, 09:27:58 PM »
Webmin and SME are mutually exclusive. Webmin will modify the various config files directly, which in turn will be overwritten by the SME templating system.

Webmin is a great tool if you want to customize your server and you know what you're doing. The large number of options can be confusing and you still need to configure all services (smaba, apache, etc)  from the ground up.

SME is a pre-configured server that does 80% of everything a small company will ever need. It offers rapid deployment, simple management, but also limited functionality. Webmin is exactly the oposite and it really depends on what your needs are.

Scott Smith

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #24 on: October 15, 2003, 09:35:30 PM »
> Webmin and SME are mutually exclusive. Webmin will modify the various
> config files directly, which in turn will be overwritten by the SME templating
> system.

This is only partially true and is misleading. Webmin and SME are only mutually exclusive for managing those things where the config files are common. For example, SME manages the Samba smb.conf file, so you should not use Webmin to manage Samba. You CAN, however, use Webmin (or any other tool for that matter) to manage anything that is not under the control of SME, and in the Unix/Linux realm that is a great number of things.

Michiel

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #25 on: October 15, 2003, 10:35:10 PM »
> This is only partially true and is misleading. Webmin and SME
> are only mutually exclusive for managing those things where
> the config files are common.

Indeed. You should NOT use webmin on SME for:
- samba
- adding/deleting users
- apache
- imap
- qmail
- ftp
- ssh
- named
- dhcp
- quota
- fetchmail
- ldap
- mysql
- iptables
- pptp
- ipsec
- squid
and some more. So although you're correct in stating that there are a few applications you can safely manage with webmin, for all practical purposes webmin is mutually exclusive with SME.

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #26 on: October 15, 2003, 11:28:02 PM »
So that begs the question when does SME going to add better functionality in its UI for:

DHCP
Samba
Apache
Log management and rotation
LDAP management
MySQL basic table and permission mgt
QMail (e.g add in better queue visibility, banned addresses etc)
IPSec (adding in x509 functionality and basic CA creation status)
More control over SSH1/2 management and certificate creation
Easier template management (e.g MOTD and banner management)

All of this stuff is IN basic SME so what about Mitel releasing a CHARGEABLE module for SME that does all this cool stuff with security updates. Bugger me its not like no-one would buy it. It would dramatically be a winner and Mitel would clean up. As its a service you can charge for it and if its a sensible price (sub $100 a year per box) Mitel would really really have some cool income.

Right now people put Webmin on ESmith because a lot of users have no experience of drowning at the command line in a bash shell. If people want something and there is a revenue opportunity and you don't deliver then thats an easy revenue opp missed.

Or people will go and use something like: http://www.smeworkplace.co.uk - SMEWorkplace server (written by monkeys and the update and install pricing is stupid), or ClarkConnect server which I also use here in place of some SME servers on site because it handles: SpamAssassin, Apache hosting, better mail queue and multiple domain management as well as better security features and awareness than SME.

All this stuff is so easy its just lack of direction and focus that lets it down - badly.

Scott Smith

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #27 on: October 16, 2003, 12:05:49 AM »
Can't speak for Mitel, but I suspect the answer is never or at least not soon. Unless I miss my guess, the revenue stream from SME Server is not significant and Mitel's interest in the product is very much for internal reasons.

Interpretation: Those who would like to see an improved SME need to do one of two things. Either fork the project and do what you think needs to be done, or create an add-on package that is a monolithic install to create the Super SME Server. Personally, I'd prefer the former method, simply because the upgrade path from one version of SME to the next has proven difficult.

Scott Smith

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #28 on: October 16, 2003, 12:10:02 AM »
I probably should clarify that it is the upgrade path for contribs from one version to the next has been difficult. Upgrading a stock SME is fairly simple. Upgrading with a plethora of contribs and local mods in place is not so simple. So, creating a Super SME add-on would likely be a super headache if/when the next SME release shows up.

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #29 on: October 16, 2003, 12:57:50 AM »
A fork is pointless. As are third party patches, third party patches break the whole upgrade system. The blade system in 5.x was functional except flawed and potentially insecure to boot but I hope whatever replaces it in 6.0 is better.

If Mitel don't realise that there is revenue attached to adding BASIC web cgi functionality to such easy stuff as qmail options, samba options, opening shells to non root users, logging, printer options and the easy and simple addition of syslogging, squid black/white list upgrades, etc then its pure simply bloodymindedness and to be frank laziness.

It is all IN there already - its just the chocolate wrapper holding the goodies that needs a mod, however any third party mod would / could break patching and would render an operational server insecure or worse still dead.

I stopped people doing 3rd party updates for SW by getting DanG to write in checksum systems to only allow our own updates, this followed into Corp and IPCop which still use it. However the fact that you can't do basic functionality with ESmith is its achilles heel and its death nail. However if someone engaged brain and spent two afternoons doing this stuff they'd have a killer server and we wouldn't have just wasted two days having discussions about it.

Again I repeat the question: If it took 2 yrs to add the port forwarding function to the menu and the menu'ing system is still as basic and outdated as it was with 5.x why do Mitel employ Charlie and Dan ? Seems money for old rope. I wouldn't employ developers who move slower than the Titanic. What do I know I only delivered 41 products in the time its taken Mitel to do 2 releases and make a fraction of the revenue. OpenSource can be powerful but... not like this.

If Mitel don't do it - I'll do it. I'd rather they did as I was working on an Exchange replacement, if it doesn't happen and someone can prove demand to me I'll fund a replacement. I made the same threat to Watchguard in the US pre delivering SmoothWall. Now millions of people didnt buy Watchguard.

What is so hard ???? This is childs play.

Dick

Scott Smith

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #30 on: October 16, 2003, 02:06:00 AM »
The dilema is not so enigmatic then. If a fork is not an option, and a 3rd party add on is not an option, and as Mitel are obviously headed in another direction, there remains only one domino standing...

Boris

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #31 on: October 16, 2003, 03:01:44 AM »
>> However if someone engaged brain and spent two afternoons doing this stuff they'd have a killer server and we wouldn't have just wasted two days having discussions about it.>>

Are we going to test your contributions next week?
Did I get your bragging right?

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #32 on: October 16, 2003, 03:25:30 AM »
Are you dense. It would take the ESmith crew with THEIR private CVS tree (which we can't submit to) that time to do it, compile and test and release.

No I'm not going to release squat for Mitel - unless they want to hire me and I don't think they could afford me.

What I can do is fund an entirely new suite, including network faxing, anti virus, anti spam and support for road warriors and proper IPSec VPN with a proper non libnewt installer. An entire new product.

Give me 3-4 months then call me chicken @!#$. I've never not delivered when I said I would. I'll find the funding and the dev staff.

Boris

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #33 on: October 16, 2003, 03:57:14 AM »
I will watch for "SmoothServer" in the news.

slord

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #34 on: October 16, 2003, 04:14:32 AM »
Yeah!
1) Im just back from the pub, I can just type ...
BUT
Even in my intellectually challenged state ....even if I regret this tomorrow after alientating a good resource!!!

GET REAL!
Nothing about webmin in mutually exclusinve.  
Sure, the custom configs are a 'bit weird but' ....
Look at what webmin already copes with!  

I tend to share the view and I apologise before .....but
heck!  its not rocket science.  In the time it takes to work out the config, write the worlds best how-to's (I have to take off my hat SME how-to's are a class above anything else) I could just write a SME specific RPM for webmin.  

Who said 80%.... yeah sure but 80% out of the box + 20% danmed hard vs 50% out of the box vs 50% easy ????
i'll contribute more when I'm sober but !!

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #35 on: October 16, 2003, 11:37:27 AM »
Boris - Smooth isn't something I do anymore. SmoothWall was about ethical software at a cheap price. SmoothWall only exists now as an exit plan for directors and a company desperate to cash in and sell up. Watch this space.

Gordon Rowell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #36 on: October 16, 2003, 04:50:38 PM »
Dick Morrell wrote:
> [...]
> What I can do is fund an entirely new suite, including
> network faxing, anti virus, anti spam and support for road
> warriors and proper IPSec VPN with a proper non libnewt
> installer. An entire new product.
> [...]

All of these features, with the exception of the proposed installer, are in the
commercial release of the server.

http://www.mitel.com/6000MAS/

We implemented because we felt they were as important as you do.

Gordon

Gordon Rowell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #37 on: October 16, 2003, 04:50:43 PM »
Dick Morrell wrote:
> [...]
> What I can do is fund an entirely new suite, including
> network faxing, anti virus, anti spam and support for road
> warriors and proper IPSec VPN with a proper non libnewt
> installer. An entire new product.
> [...]

All of these features, with the exception of the proposed installer, are in the
commercial release of the server.

http://www.mitel.com/6000MAS/

We implemented them because we felt they were as important as you do.

Gordon

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #38 on: October 16, 2003, 05:07:32 PM »
Cool, so does that mean reading between the lines that esmith will continue to be a handicapped product with little updates, no real growth and that Mitel wouldn't like a chunk of easily attainable revenue ? I only ask because I have 135 paying commercial resellers who all sell product and all of them would have looked at an ESmith product but who think the average Mitel reseller is a joke. The message is so lost :(

Remote teleworker solutions and PABX solutions are a totally different market to the network server market and there is a market that needs addressing.

But if all these features are in MAS for a seriously silly price (and it is silly - do some market comparisons) then releasing a GPL product with CHARGEABLE maintained modules would be nice and would more than pay for itself. It actually would outperform MAS sales. That isn't a bad thing and just proves a busted model. Maybe something for you to suggest to the sales prevention team.

I spoke to three Mitel resellers all affable, nice and polite, all clueless. All of them. Not a clue. Couldnt have told me anything about the product and then wanted to sell me services on top of them that I clearly didnt need.

Now there is demand and when this thread started I had no intention of doing anything. I was a happy ESmith user but as this thread has continued its become clear that almost sweet FA is being backported into ESmith. I'm sure every SME user is grateful to Mitel for supporting hosting and dev costs - thats a given. However if the only thing thats made it into the UI in TWO years is portforwarding which can be added in under 8 minutes then thats laughable.

I have identified a tech company I can get my fund managers to acquire and I've even talked to two perl coders this morning willing to go to work full time on an alternative solution. I know I can beat the MAS into a cocked hat and after reading your response which I am grateful for it seems that says 6.0 is 5.3 + new kernel and almost nothing else - not even a chargeable update module or feature pack.

Revenue missed.... Big time.

I know overnight I got 43 emails from people on this list who wanted to know what I could do. My wife presumed I was retired but maybe there is a gap for me to fill.

Dick

Boris

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #39 on: October 17, 2003, 01:19:00 AM »
Can you as well fund your own website and forum to share your vision and future plans? I see it as an extremely rude and inappropriate to bush Mitel and their user community on their own forum. Where is old good Russian saying in my bad translation would sound like “they do not walk in the stranger of monastyr' with their own regulations”.
You attitude and reputation is well known and you don’t have to prove it here.
Please stop this pissing contents and mind your own bussiness elsewhere.

Brian

Sayings (was Re: Webmin on e-smith?)
« Reply #40 on: October 17, 2003, 02:02:13 AM »
Boris wrote:

> Where is old good Russian saying in my bad
> translation would sound like ?they do not walk in the
> stranger of monastyr' with their own regulations?.

A suitable saying in English (I guess the original was Greek) is:

   Don't look a gift horse in the mouth.

B.

John Houston

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #41 on: October 18, 2003, 01:44:42 PM »
Much as I dont want to keep the argument going I dont belive any of this crap from Morrell about his coding.

I recently talked to George Lungley Managing Director of Smoothwall And Lawrence Manning - Technical Director who both advised that Richard ran the Smoothwall project but NEVER contributed one line of code.   Strange to hear that about someone who clearly can critisise everyone else but hasnt shown any contribution himself.

I say if he can contribute then lets see the quality of your contribution - ie put up or shut up Dick

John

Dan

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #42 on: October 24, 2003, 07:41:37 AM »
Well, it seems Richard has managed to offend yet another online group.  Nice going.  Accusations of trolling and some four letter expletives seem to fall so easily from the mouth of a human being who is content with strutting into any online forum and degrading an entire business model.

No Richard, you have no friends here.

Noz

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #43 on: October 24, 2003, 01:13:42 PM »
Dan wrote:
>
> Well, it seems Richard has managed to offend yet another
> online group.  Nice going.  Accusations of trolling and some
> four letter expletives seem to fall so easily from the mouth
> of a human being who is content with strutting into any
> online forum and degrading an entire business model.

Why the hell did you wait five days to contribute nothing to a thread that is now dead?  Arrggghh!

Dick Morrell

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #44 on: October 24, 2003, 02:20:54 PM »
Yawn, Dan get a life.

Actually 41 emails from people agreeing with me including some Mitel customers suggests you're talking utter baloney.

I have rather a lot of friends here but go for it take your best shot. I'd rather spend my time adding functionality and security to a good project. Whats your claim to fame ?

You're rather boring but if you want to take me on - go for it. I'd love to eat you for breakfast. Personally I think its a waste of effort, I'd rather just get on with coding what I've been doing for the last three weeks.

Am releasing an iso of Mitel mods in the next two weeks with some nice bits and pieces. I trust you won't want to download it or use it.

Henrik

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #45 on: October 24, 2003, 05:20:26 PM »
Noz wrote:
>
> Why the hell did you wait five days to contribute nothing to
> a thread that is now dead?  Arrggghh!


LOL!! Why did u??

Dan

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #46 on: November 02, 2003, 08:50:38 AM »
Yawn.

"Talking baloney".  "Eat you for breakfast".  The same hot air you've always been, mate.

The things I produce wouldn't interest you in the slightest, so I won't waste your time mentioning them here.  Your products however are of great interest.  It's just your shining personality that lets them down.  It's a shame so many people these days don't want your products simply because they are YOUR products.  I've yet to have a customer dislike my business attitude.  And I've yet to swear at a customer too.  Something I know you can't appreciate.

But I digress, and you'll never be capable of getting the point anyway.

Good night everybody.

-Dan

Dick

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #47 on: November 02, 2003, 01:24:39 PM »
Common misconception:

1) I've never sworn at a customer - get your facts right.
2) I've told plenty of the Linux geek unwashed community where to shove their comments and demands for free support, even when they've called my home at 3am DEMANDING help for their cable modem configs.

You guys really need to get out more. No such thing as bad PR. For every misfit geek in a GNU shirt there are 10 happy paying customers. Maybe thats why I built the strongest Linux based company in Europe with more revenue than any other. You didnt mention that bit.

Andy MacDonald

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #48 on: November 03, 2003, 06:24:24 AM »
Yep, a company which is happy you've left it.
YOU didn't mention that bit.

peter

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #49 on: November 15, 2003, 02:54:02 AM »
Am releasing an iso of Mitel mods in the next two weeks with some nice bits and pieces. I trust you won't want to download it or use it.

Has anybody seen any sign of Dicks release or is this just more hot air from the man who seems to like blowing his trumpet?
I read somewhere else that while Smoothwall may have been dicks idea, he did no work on the coding, just shouted a lot about the product and if you do a google search on Dick Morrell you will see a lot of posts by him blasting IPCop as a pack of muppets but he now states that he supports them, any idea what the idea is here? of if infact he has contributed any code to IPCOP or indeed any code to any other open source project?

Arjay

Re: Webmin on e-smith?
« Reply #50 on: November 28, 2003, 11:39:30 AM »
geezz! too many words from GREAT linux people but i cant seem to get an answer from the first reply to the reply before mine.

no offense to everybody coz i really like e-smith but i just need the functionalities of webmin (and even usermin and virtualmin). nothing fancy. i just need an almost all-in-one tool that would really lessen my work load configuring my sme5.6 to catch up to the demands of my costumers. i would admit that the present server manager lacks a lil bit of functionalities but it doesnt mean im joining your flame war

good day

Arjay

whiz

So many years later...
« Reply #51 on: July 07, 2007, 01:51:53 PM »
And Dick Morrell still hasn't done anything worth reporting after blowing his horn.