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Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy

Offline Mike

Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« on: December 08, 2020, 08:07:08 PM »
Hi guys

I like SME-Server very much so I sad to see that Centos 6 and so SME-Server 9 was eol before SME Server 10 was ready.
Just installed SME Server 10 Alpha 5 again and though the base is there, it's clear that there is stil very much work to do.
I looked through the bugs and saw this one "remove reference to php3 php4 files and deprecated php modules"
Then I did a yum update and got the message that PHP 5.6, 7.0 and 7.1 where eol.
The I googled it and saw that 7.2 is eol at 1 january 2021.
So it would be smarter to build on PHP 8 and thatś only PHP.

I am fond of SME-Server and am ashamed to say that I'm more of a user than a contributor because I have no free time whatsoever.
That's a matter of fact, I am always short of time.
But because I'm this short in time I understand where you guys are at.

That's why I started  thinking about this:
Considering Centos 7 is eol in 2024 and SME-Server 10 is still far from ready, why not rethink your strategy and rebuild it on Centos 8.
I know it is more work and I would like to see SME-Server 10 be ready asap too but it makes sence rebuilding SME-Server 10 on Centos 8 now as it is not eol until may 2029 which would give you a lot more time to enjoy SME-Server 10 even though it is more work right now.

This is a serious suggestion, guys.

Offline Jean-Philippe Pialasse

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  • 1,768
  • aka Unnilennium
    • http://smeserver.pialasse.com
Re: Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 08:28:48 PM »
cleaning of template /php4

this is just a reference to tidying things not needed anymore and there for a while. yes cleaning is not a priority where we are, but while you are rewriting a file, it is almost as fast to also remove those extra lines.

php5* eol
do not forget php54 remains maintained by RH while Rhel7 is not eol. for other alert you can chose not to use them and disable them. But still horde will need php72 to work and fails on more recent.


php8

this is a huge task building and maintaining those rpm while checking you have all security updates. we rely on Remi Collet who does an enourmous work with this for the whole Fedora / Centos related community. We must thank him for getting us php74. Otherwise it would be the red hat patched php54 only.

If we start working on php8 you can forget any remaining time to work on anything else


rebase on rhel 8

only the process of building, testing all the necessary dependencies for SME is a 3 month task for 2-4 people. you check the bugs and wiki around 2015-2016 for the import for SME10.
So at this point stoping SME 10 to rebase to SME 11 / rhel8 would be just delaying any release for 3 more months. That without saying the extra surprise that make things not working

And still we would then need to finish the work we are currently doing to get it working with systemd and be able to publish a beta /rc. 
So this means maybe 5 months to years before having a new version with current version eol.

So the strategy of going on with the extra work to publish SME 10 in the next months  seems the more reliable for the community.


PS: you might be aware also that some big changes are going on with CentOS 8 and it will migrate from rhel8 rebased to pre Red Hat version, a kind of alpha release of what could become rhel8.
This means we might want delay work there to see how it is going to be and eventually choose a different path.
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 08:33:22 PM by Jean-Philippe Pialasse »

Re: Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2020, 11:45:57 PM »
ClearOS and Nethserver are still pondering.

Offline Mike

Re: Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« Reply #3 on: December 09, 2020, 02:18:58 AM »
Forgive my ignorance.
It was just a thought and it seemed logical to at least think about it.
You guys clearly are more into Redhat, Centos and PHP than I am and clearly have thought it through.

Anyway, ClearOS and Nethserver are not really for me.
I must admit that because of this eol thing I started looking at Nethserver and though it looks great, it's not SME-Server and I'm missing stuff in it that I need like complete multiple Domains on one server.

I hope I get some more time somewhere in the feature to help you guys out some more because I'm still hooked on SME-Server.
I wish you all giood luck with the development of SME-Server 10 and I will look forward to it.

Offline Jean-Philippe Pialasse

  • *
  • 1,768
  • aka Unnilennium
    • http://smeserver.pialasse.com
Re: Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« Reply #4 on: December 09, 2020, 04:21:14 AM »
Mike,

both inside and outside the box perspectives are importants.

the most important is however to be able to exchange on those perspectives to have a better understanding of the situation.

And quite often we all learn something useful.

now back to work : 13 services to go before the beta.

Offline ReetP

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  • 2,874
Re: Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2020, 11:41:27 AM »
I like SME-Server very much so I sad to see that Centos 6 and so SME-Server 9 was eol before SME Server 10 was ready.
Just installed SME Server 10 Alpha 5 again and though the base is there, it's clear that there is stil very much work to do.

Yeah, well we did our best but it seems that too many people were 'too busy' to help.

Just as well we had nothing to do in our own lives then eh? It does not build itself.

Quote
I looked through the bugs and saw this one "remove reference to php3 php4 files and deprecated php modules"
Then I did a yum update and got the message that PHP 5.6, 7.0 and 7.1 where eol.
The I googled it and saw that 7.2 is eol at 1 january 2021.
So it would be smarter to build on PHP 8 and thatś only PHP.

I am fond of SME-Server and am ashamed to say that I'm more of a user than a contributor because I have no free time whatsoever.
That's a matter of fact, I am always short of time.
But because I'm this short in time I understand where you guys are at.

Now what I find surprising is you had time to do ALL that searching, and no time to actually help?

"No free time whatsoever"? Really?

Quote
That's why I started  thinking about this:
Considering Centos 7 is eol in 2024 and SME-Server 10 is still far from ready, why not rethink your strategy and rebuild it on Centos 8.
I know it is more work and I would like to see SME-Server 10 be ready asap too but it makes sence rebuilding SME-Server 10 on Centos 8 now as it is not eol until may 2029 which would give you a lot more time to enjoy SME-Server 10 even though it is more work right now.

This is a serious suggestion, guys.

I'll give you a serious suggestion. If you want it done then please stop talking, and start helping. Then you can help decide on strategy. That'll make a lot of difference.

If we had a penny for everyone who told us they were too busy to do anything, but "WE" should doing X Y or Z, we would be a rich people by now.

In the meantime, go have a look in the bug lists and see how much work has been done by people who do not use or depend on SME for work, have other jobs, a wife, children, friends and a social life. Then ask yourself what would happen if they all said to themselves "I'm too busy"?

You can always find time for the things you want to do.

The few people who are actually working on this right now have been working all hours trying to get us to Beta status.

We are all pretty dog tired.

And then to be told someone is 'too busy' but 'you should be doing this' is about as big an insult as I can stomach.

If you want something changed, get involved and stop making excuses.

<rant off>
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline Mike

Re: Rethinking SME-Server 10 strategy
« Reply #6 on: December 14, 2020, 11:33:04 PM »
Quote
PS: you might be aware also that some big changes are going on with CentOS 8 and it will migrate from rhel8 rebased to pre Red Hat version, a kind of alpha release of what could become rhel8.
This means we might want delay work there to see how it is going to be and eventually choose a different path.

 :???:

No, I did not know that.
I did some googling on the Redhat/CentOS change.
Fine bunch those Redhat guys.
Now I feel like a fool for suggesting it.
Saw a lot of people are even thinking of moving to Ubuntu Server.
If many people really would make the move to Ubuntu Server than IBM would look like fools for shooting in their own foot.
And no, I learned my lesson and will not make any suggestions anymore if SME Server….
Well, You know what I mean.