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The Future of CentOS

Offline ReetP

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The Future of CentOS
« on: December 08, 2020, 04:37:24 PM »
Looks like CentOS is about to be borged by RHEL.

We continue to press ahead finish and release Koozali SMEv10, but with this announcement I think there are going to be some serious discussions about the future.

Started by this mail:

https://lists.centos.org/pipermail/centos-devel/2020-December/075451.html

Reference here:
https://centos.org/distro-faq/#q5-does-this-mean-that-centos-stream-is-the-rhel-beta-test-platform-now

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline bunkobugsy

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #1 on: December 08, 2020, 07:48:19 PM »
"Meanwhile, we understand many of you are deeply invested in CentOS Linux
7, and we’ll continue to produce that version through the remainder of
the RHEL 7 life cycle. "

And there's always https://distrowatch.com/table.php?distribution=oracle

Offline ReetP

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #2 on: December 08, 2020, 08:21:14 PM »
Yes, 7/v10/is ok.

But a lot of thought for 8/v11.

Oracle? That won't be me..... I trust Ellison even less than IBM.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Online Jean-Philippe Pialasse

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #3 on: December 08, 2020, 08:35:18 PM »
alternatives:

fedora based with a 6 month release cycle would not be doable for us

opensuse?




Offline gzartman

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #4 on: December 08, 2020, 10:53:04 PM »
I wouldn't give up on Centos just yet:

From comments in Centos Streams Announcement:

Gregory Kurtzer says:
December 8, 2020 at 4:27 pm
I am considering creating another rebuild of RHEL and may even be able to hire some people for this effort. If you are interested in helping, please join the HPCng slack (link on the website hpcng.org).

Greg
(original founder of CentOS)


And then the following GIT repository just created today:

https://github.com/hpcng/centosng
« Last Edit: December 08, 2020, 10:55:45 PM by gzartman »
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Greg J. Zartman
LEI Engineering & Surveying

SME user and community member since 2000.

Offline gzartman

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #5 on: December 09, 2020, 02:41:18 AM »
We welcome Rocky Linux!!!!


Rocky Linux
--------------------------------------------
Rocky Linux is a community enterprise Operating System designed to be 100% bug-for-bug compatible with Red Hat Enterprise Linux now that CentOS has shifted direction.
----
Greg J. Zartman
LEI Engineering & Surveying

SME user and community member since 2000.

Offline dallas

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #6 on: December 09, 2020, 07:58:01 AM »
alternatives:

fedora based with a 6 month release cycle would not be doable for us

opensuse?

What are your thoughts about Debian?

Offline Daniel B.

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #7 on: December 09, 2020, 08:55:54 AM »
Before talking about changing the base distro : what's wrong with CentOS Stream ? For most CentOS users, it won't change anything. Only those who tests on CentOS but deploy on RHEL might be affected by the change
C'est la fin du monde !!! :lol:

Offline dallas

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #8 on: December 09, 2020, 09:38:40 AM »
Before talking about changing the base distro : what's wrong with CentOS Stream ? For most CentOS users, it won't change anything. Only those who tests on CentOS but deploy on RHEL might be affected by the change

I admire your optimism and I hope you are correct. However as a former IBM employee I have a different view.
IBM have a history of buying products and eventually trashing them.

Offline ReetP

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #9 on: December 09, 2020, 10:06:02 AM »
Because they have become 'economical' with the truth?

"So, if you need a stable RHEL-like operating system, CentOS will still be there for you. But, if you need to keep up with your competitors who are building new cloud and container-based applications, CentOS Stream will work better for you."

Chris Wright, Red Hat's CTO

https://www.zdnet.com/article/red-hat-introduces-rolling-release-centos-stream/

Lots of claims about no IBM influence.

But IBM can afford to be subtle.

"You need to increase profits. We don't care how"

Then throw their hands up and say "we didn't make them do it".

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline Daniel B.

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #10 on: December 09, 2020, 10:08:28 AM »
That still doesn't explain what's wrong with CentOS Stream. It'll just be a bit more "rolling release" between minor RHEL versions. It's a pain if you target RHEL and test against CentOS. But if you only use CentOS, it shouldn't change a lot (or at all)
C'est la fin du monde !!! :lol:

Offline ReetP

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #11 on: December 09, 2020, 10:25:52 AM »
Because who knows what it will be tomorrow?

We all knew exactly what CentOS was.

But goalposts are shifting, and none of us can be sure what tomorrow will bring.

I'm afraid my confidence in corporate tricks is extremely low. Just seen this sort of thing too many times before.

IBM did not buy RHEL for the shits & giggles. They bought it for profits. That is the driver.

A key point made on the list was something like "it'll be fine, but if streams don't work for you then just sign up for RHEL & support"

This is just a neat way to leverage you to a position. It isn't about what a stream is today, but what it might become tomorrow.

See the above quote from the CTO. I understand the original thinking on streams being more cutting edge. My guess is they'll become more so, despite promises.

But the problem then is they have removed the chance of staying on that stable base if you preferred it.

At least we have some time to watch the goings on.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline gzartman

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #12 on: December 09, 2020, 05:54:58 PM »
Before talking about changing the base distro : what's wrong with CentOS Stream ? For most CentOS users, it won't change anything. Only those who tests on CentOS but deploy on RHEL might be affected by the change

This isn't what most people are saying.  They are saying Centos Stream is essentially the beta version of packages for RHEL. 

If this wasn't going to change anything, then why are so many people pissed off about it?

This sounds exactly like what happened when RH spun off Fedora.  It also makes sense they would do it now since distros like Scientific Linux, also a RHEL rebuild, went away leaving only Centos.  RH (IBM) wants people to move to the paid for version of RHEL, so it makes sense they would pull the plug now on Centos.
----
Greg J. Zartman
LEI Engineering & Surveying

SME user and community member since 2000.

Offline Daniel B.

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #13 on: December 09, 2020, 06:06:44 PM »
This isn't what most people are saying.  They are saying Centos Stream is essentially the beta version of packages for RHEL. 
From reading CentOS FAQ, it seems CentOS will only be slightly ahead of RHEL between minor releases. It should still be very close to RHEL. This is an issue if you test on CentOS but target RHEL (because they aren't 100% similar), but it shouldn't be a problem for most users of CentOS. Not that there won't be any issue of course. 3rd party repo like EPEL, Elrepo etc will have to adapt. But once things settle down, it shouldn't change a lot for a lot of use case. Including the use case of using CentOS as base for SME Server.

If this wasn't going to change anything, then why are so many people pissed off about it?
Can't say why are people pissed. It doesn't mean anything on the impact of the change to CentOS stream, so it's not of interest to me.

Let's wait a bit, for more concrete info

++
C'est la fin du monde !!! :lol:

Offline gzartman

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Re: The Future of CentOS
« Reply #14 on: December 09, 2020, 06:24:51 PM »
I'll be watching this space:  https://github.com/hpcng/rocky

It says something that the original founder of Centos feels strongly enough about the change in Centos that he is trying to start a new effort to rebuild what Centos originally was.  The fact that he changed the name from Centosng to Rocky Linux also says he is aware that RH has control of the name Centos.

It never felt right when Centos came under Red Hat's control.   Somebody, or people, at Centos got paid alot of money to let this happen.  After this happened, it was only a matter of time before Red Hat changed the rules for Centos.
----
Greg J. Zartman
LEI Engineering & Surveying

SME user and community member since 2000.