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Add IPX/SPX for SME 10

Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« on: April 04, 2020, 08:21:48 PM »
Hello,

Maybe developers can add IPX / SPX for SME Server 9 and 10 ?
Mars_Nwe  (Emulator NetWare 3.12) is  very good for older application… (Clipper and FoxPro)
Mars server is best for dos client (lower memory is >580 kb with client)
Microsoft dos client and Samba server is very poor (lower base memory for 16 bit app is only > 300 kb)
I have IPX/SPX for Windows 7/8/10.
I have full client Windows7/8/10 for Mars Server.


Best Regards

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #1 on: April 04, 2020, 08:35:36 PM »
Blimey - there's a throwback...

First network I ever built was for a mate so he could play Duke3D over IPX on his office network as they had a Netware server.

First proper server I ever administrated too...... :cool:

Regrettably you are probably in a small minority wanting support and we have enough other stuff to do just to get SME v10 out, let alone work on IPX.

Whether it will even work will depend on RedHat support - if it is in RHEL7 you can probably get something running. If not you really are on your own.

I had a quick look but can't see anything.

By all means if you can see some code support we may be able to give you a hand to get you going, but zero guarantees.

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #2 on: April 04, 2020, 10:02:48 PM »
Hello again,

Thank You for Your answer :smile:

I understand the situation , but IPX is very safe today.
I think so this protocol has been forgotten because Microsoft deleted IPX from Windows , but I have IPX for new Microsoft systems with client for Mars Server.

I think so Mars Server is very interested project , but without any support today (maybe I can add new function for Mars server - NDS support - very interested for newer users )
I am Harbour/Clipper developer.
I have many bootrom's for Mars server and I can make add bootroms for new card for SME Server.
Maybe it is worth thinking about changing the approach to file sharing?
Samba server is very good for Windows , but is very poor for FreeDos and other older systems.
It would be great for someone to add IPX ;)

Can You add IPX for SME, without any support?

I see : http://archive.download.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.3/es/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/
mars-nwe-0.99pl20-6.i386.rpm -> This is Mars Server

Best Regards
« Last Edit: April 04, 2020, 10:09:58 PM by mick2020 »

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #3 on: April 05, 2020, 01:24:36 AM »
Thank You for Your answer :smile:

No probs.
Quote
I understand the situation , but IPX is very safe today.

Just because it is no longer used by most people does not make it safe.

https://resources.whitesourcesoftware.com/blog-whitesource/top-5-linux-kernel-vulnerabilities-in-2018
https://nvd.nist.gov/vuln/detail/CVE-2018-8822

Quote
I think so this protocol has been forgotten because Microsoft deleted IPX from Windows , but I have IPX for new Microsoft systems with client for Mars Server.

Do you know how old that server code is?

Quote
I think so Mars Server is very interested project , but without any support today (maybe I can add new function for Mars server - NDS support - very interested for newer users )


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Maybe it is worth thinking about changing the approach to file sharing?

I'm afraid for most people that ship sailed long ago and there is no going back. Companies like M$ have decided the future, and whether it is right of wrong, that is what most people use. And that dictates how much time gets spent on projects.

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Samba server is very good for Windows , but is very poor for FreeDos and other older systems.

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It would be great for someone to add IPX ;)
Can You add IPX for SME, without any support?

It may be possible but you will most likely have to work it out on your own. None of us have got IPX kit around to work with.....

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I see : http://archive.download.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux/7.3/es/os/i386/RedHat/RPMS/
mars-nwe-0.99pl20-6.i386.rpm -> This is Mars Server

That is the OLD Redhat versioning so that package is from around 2001 (it is NOT the same as Redhat Enterprise Linux 7 aka RHEL 7)


The last release of mars_nwe source code is this from 2006

ftp://ftp.koansoftware.com/public/opensource/mars_nwe

mars_nwe-0.99.pl21.tgz   339 KB    02/01/2006    01:00:00 CET


There are few source rpms you could use to build a package though I am not sure if they will compile (just tried - they don't). The latest seemed to be in a fedora archive:

https://archives.fedoraproject.org/pub/archive/fedora/linux/core/1/x86_64/os/SRPMS/mars-nwe-0.99pl20-13.src.rpm (seems to be based on 0.99.pl19)

http://ftp.redhat.com/redhat/linux/enterprise/2.1AS/en/os/i386/SRPMS/mars-nwe-0.99pl20-6.src.rpm
http://ftp.scientificlinux.org/linux/redhat/8/SRPMS/mars-nwe-0.99pl20-10.src.rpm

Note there are various patches here that you could use as well and a few other references I found:

Spec file with some patches and source code:

https://github.com/pld-linux/mars_nwe
http://dist.momonga-linux.org/pub/momonga/1/PKGS/SOURCES/mars_nwe-0.99.pl20.tgz

Only problem is the spec file references two files that aren't present:
mars_nwe.cnv.tgz
pipefs-scripts.tgz

You'd need to find those - I can't.

Other sites I came across:
https://www.pld-linux.org/
http://www.compu-art.de/mars_nwe/index.html

Without spending a lot more time on that is as much as I can do.

The Fedora version throws compiler errors on CentOS6/SME v9.

The patches in git may or may not allow it to compile and run on SME v9. If it doesn't then you will need to be a C coder to fix it.

I will re-iterate. Just because it is old does NOT make it secure (See the bugs above). Worse, is that any bugs will almost certainly not get fixed.

I'm afraid obsolescence is both sad, and brutal.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #4 on: April 05, 2020, 11:48:54 AM »

Thank You for answer ;)

IPX is absolutly free from internet hackers ...
Today I working with IPX with more workstations and with internet and WAN IPX networks. I don't see any hackers. In last time I see hackers for Windows terminal servers (hackers they know how to login with terminal server without password and without username).
I see more attack in mail servers in last time (SME too)
I think so You have right, but Linux is open platform and people have more lots of custom ideas...
If You can help me please tell me ;)

I try install mars_nwe in SME.

Best Regards

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #5 on: April 05, 2020, 12:35:26 PM »
IPX is absolutly free from internet hackers ...

You have just made your first mistake... assumptions.

No it is not. Note the CVE I posted previously. People are still finding bugs. You are NOT immune.

So you run IPX behind your TCP/IP router and think you are safe? So your server that now runs IPX and TCP/IP gets hacked? Then the hackers have two routes to the rest of your network..... happy days for hackers then.

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Today I working with IPX with more workstations and with internet and WAN IPX networks. I don't see any hackers. In last time I see hackers for Windows terminal servers (hackers they know how to login with terminal server without password and without username).

Do you think hackers walk the internet with a sign over their head saying 'I am a hacker and want to get in to your network'?

No, they try and hide themselves as much as they can so you don't even know they are there.

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I see more attack in mail servers in last time (SME too)

The same the world over. And ssh as well. And right now a lot more with millions of bored script kiddies at home instead of at school.....

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I think so You have right, but Linux is open platform and people have more lots of custom ideas...

It is indeed and rightly so. And custom ideas are great. But, you might have to do some of the work yourself if your idea doesn't have any support.

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If You can help me please tell me ;)

I have done all I can already. I tried to find a srpm that I could try and compile, but when I did it failed due to other missing files. I detailed it all above. I don't have the time or resources to do any more.

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I try install mars_nwe in SME.

I think you will find you can't. The only route will be to follow up the work I did earlier and build your own binaries.

But, as I say above, the software is extremely old, unsupported and liable to be full of security vulnerabilities.

You need to be extremely careful. I know you think that if you run IPX you are safe from attack, but the reality is if ONE machine has dual stack to allow internet access, you have a problem.

The best advice for security is to assume you have been hacked, or will be hacked shortly, and work from there. Starting from the premise that 'no one uses it so I won't get hacked' is extremely naive and dangerous. You need to be a lot more careful and change your security strategy.

Sorry. It is 'tough love', but better safe than sorry.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #6 on: April 05, 2020, 02:07:08 PM »
Thank You for answer.
I thik so You have right , but I have more log files and I see who is try hacked my networks , but not all ataks  ... 99 % attack is from TCP/IP network.
You think so IPX is enabled in kernel SME Server ?

I see :
https://repology.org/project/mars-nwe/versions
Last version is from 2017 year :)


Best Regards
« Last Edit: April 05, 2020, 02:17:15 PM by mick2020 »

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #7 on: April 05, 2020, 05:48:59 PM »
I thik so You have right , but I have more log files and I see who is try hacked my networks , but not all ataks  ... 99 % attack is from TCP/IP network.

I am sure. BUT.  That does NOT mean that your IPX networks are secure......

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You think so IPX is enabled in kernel SME Server ?

I believe 'linux' supports ncpfs. Which means it should have support in SME. All that means is that if configured you can use the transport.

BUT. You need a server. And you need a client. We know that mars_nwe is not going to work as a server at the minute unless you build it yourself. And I can't see many clients lying about.

Quote
I see :
https://repology.org/project/mars-nwe/versions
Last version is from 2017 year :)

I think you may find that is not quite as easy as it seems but by all means have a go.

I think you may come unstuck when you try to patch the source code which you don't have the correct version of.

So their spec file requires this:

ftp://ftp.compu-art.de/mars_nwe/mars_nwe-0.99.pl21.tar.bz2

But it isn't available, so the patches won't work correctly.

By all means have a go. If you find a complete set of files which match the 'Sources' in the spec file then let us know and we can try a quick build.

Good luck.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #8 on: April 06, 2020, 12:37:57 AM »

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #9 on: April 06, 2020, 12:07:26 PM »
I see :
http://ftp.disconnected-by-peer.at/ncpfs/
http://ftp.disconnected-by-peer.at/ncpfs/mars_nwe-0.99.pl23.tar.bz2 <- this version is from 2013 year

You aren't really reading things. You need to open the archives and read the code inside them and really understand what is going on behind the scenes here. Not all packages are the same. Not every spec file works the same. If you had a go at building yourself you would find this out.......

By all means go ahead and try and compile it, but I think you will find you can't for SME. Or if you can it is going to take you a long time and a lot of learning.

Just dumping odd links here that are not necessarily related and hoping that someone builds it for you is pointless. I really don't have time to go chasing ghosts so you are really on your own here.

Try comparing these two:

http://ftp.disconnected-by-peer.at/ncpfs/mars_nwe-0.99.pl21.tar.bz2
http://ftp.disconnected-by-peer.at/ncpfs/mars_nwe-0.99.pl23.tar.bz2

They are not the same.....

You have too many varying source files, and none of it matching the right spec files.

You can possibly force a manual build of some binaries, but that is going to be a totally handcrafted affair, and it is certainly not something I have the time to do for you I'm afraid.

Even if you get it to run on SME v9 there is zero guarantee that it would work on SME v10, and building and releasing SME v10 is a far better use of peoples time and resources because it is what 99.9999% of our users require.

It would probably be easier to get an old copy of Netware and run it on something like virtualbox on SME....

https://stuff.mit.edu/afs/sipb/project/vmdialup/archive/i386_linux24.old/lib/vmware-console/help/esx/guestos-novell-4.htm

Good luck.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #10 on: April 06, 2020, 01:20:30 PM »
NetWare 4.x with emulator (GuestOS) is very slow with any database system.
I would like to do add MarsNwe for the SME community.
I like smesever and i have more plugin for MarsNwe.

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #11 on: April 06, 2020, 04:27:22 PM »
NetWare 4.x with emulator (GuestOS) is very slow with any database system.


I think that compared to the systems it ran on in the 1990s it would be more than fast enough in a virtual machine on todays equipment...............

Quote
I would like to do add MarsNwe for the SME community.
I like smesever and i have more plugin for MarsNwe.

It would be nice if you did, but you are going to have to do this yourself.

I know you are enthusiastic and I do not want to stop that.

But. I haven't got the time to try and do this, and I doubt there is anyone else who is interested I'm afraid. It is also a  matter of time and priority. There are much more important things that need fixing now.

If you want this running you need to go and find all the code you require and compile the code/build a rpm yourself. There are details on the wiki and on the internet on how to compiling and how to build a RPM. You need to spend some time reading and testing.

If you get enough code and a successful compile then we might be able to help you build a rpm.

But you are going to have to do most of the work yourself.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #12 on: April 06, 2020, 07:53:51 PM »
Hello,

I try…
I am harbour developer , maybe I can make MarsNwe for SME.
Several distributions from 2019 year add mars_nwe for users

Best Regards

Offline ReetP

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Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #13 on: April 06, 2020, 08:29:38 PM »
I am harbour developer , maybe I can make MarsNwe for SME.

Good luck.

Quote
Several distributions from 2019 year add mars_nwe for users

They are going to be using extremely old software....

Anyway.

(Note I am only looking at this as I have fond memories of messing about with a Novell server years ago)

There are various HowTOs around and about, and you can get a copy of Netware easily enough.

https://virtuallyfun.com/category/novell-netware-3-12/

https://agerum.blogspot.com/2018/12/installing-netware-312-on-virtualbox.html

Runs like greased lighting in virtualbox on this old desktop... see the speed rating!!.

It clearly needs a Y2K date fix applying though.....

It would therefore most likely run in VirtualBox on SME as well.

Relevant files are easily available. If you desperately want to run it this might be a better solution for you.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Add IPX/SPX for SME 10
« Reply #14 on: April 09, 2020, 12:42:38 AM »
Hello,

Thank You very much for answer...
Old NetWare 3.12 work fine with new hardware, but I need 4.x with NDS. NetWare on Linux have new futures...
I have good memories with NetWare and I have today new solutions with NetWare 4 - (I have too SAMBA for NetWare with pure IP)
 I try compile Mars_Nwe with SME. I have bootroms for new networks cards and I can add this files for SME new distrubutions when SME work fine with mars_nwe.

Best Regards