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Connection to NBN in bridged mode

Offline janet

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Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« on: January 12, 2020, 11:51:24 PM »
Hi All

NBN is in our Sydney suburban area & the old PSTN phone network is due for disconnection in mid February.
I will need to order a business grade NBN service with static IP asap to replace existing ADSL2+ service.
I have been using SME server in server gateway mode with a bridged modem with ADSL2+, acting as mail & web server (low volume).

I intend to do the same type of configuration with the NBN service which is FTTC in our area. I assume the NBN installer will supply a NCD (network connection device) to which I connect the modem (probably a TP-Link VR1600V from TPG) via the WAN Ethernet port.

Can any other user(s) confirm that I can configure the modem for bridged mode & SME server in gateway server mode & that the combination will work as expected (ie generally speaking the same as previously).
The modem does support bridged mode. This will be a Internet only service without phone so I do not need other functionality that the modem/router can provide.

I have not had the pleasure of installing/using an NBN service as yet, as our area in a major capital city of Sydney was one of the last to receive NBN in Australia

Thanks
Janet


« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 05:15:08 AM by janet »
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Offline ReetP

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2020, 12:33:09 AM »
Assuming it does bridge mode (seems so as you suggest eg https://community.tpg.com.au/t5/Modems-and-Devices/How-to-set-up-a-bridge-on-archer-vr1600v/td-p/1640 ) I'd guess it should be fine.

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Offline sages

Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2020, 12:56:34 AM »
FTTC (Fibre to the curb) with supplied NBN NCD (network connection device) provides a bridged ethernet interface. No other modem is required.
ie ethernet cable from NCD direct to SME server gateway.
NBN FTTC <usually exiting phone cable> NCD <ethernet, either fixed IP or DHCP depending upon provider> SME Gateway mode.

And you usually have around 12 months from NBN provisioning before final cut off of analog service. ie no existing ADSL2+ service will remain working until your ISP does a final NBN cutover.
NOTE: VLAN tagging may be required for the NCD ethernet interface. Not sure how you do this with SME in gateway mode. I've never investigated this. If you can't configure SME WAN port to use vlan tagging then you'll need another device to provide tagging/untagging of the NCD ethernet interface
« Last Edit: January 13, 2020, 12:59:34 AM by sages »
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Online TerryF

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2020, 04:28:02 AM »
You may already use https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/ but has lots of info in its NBN forum
--
qui scribit bis legit

Offline ReetP

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2020, 09:24:41 AM »
NBN?

Sounds like my ISP in Spain.

No Bloody Network..... :-)
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Offline janet

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #5 on: January 13, 2020, 10:34:23 PM »
NBN?
Sounds like my ISP in Spain.
No Bloody Network..... :-)

Actually it's called
National Broadband Network.
There have been lots of problems & complaints in the last 2 years during implementation, so a lot of people may well consider the spanish acronym as being more appropriate !

To be fair I had a home service installed yesterday & after a 2 hr wait for external configuration, I connected the equipment & it all worked first go with speed as promised.

Thanks to everyone for their comments so far.
I tried Sages suggestion & put a test SME server on my home NBN connected directly to the NCD.
I tried PPPoE & both DHCP modes but could not get Internet access when running the console test, so maybe the lack of VLAN tagging is the issue.
I will try configuring the supplied modem in bridged mode later today.

Has anyone actually done this configuration with SME server & NBN FTTC in Australia ?

Thanks
Janet
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Offline janet

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2020, 12:55:36 AM »
Dear All

Janet wrote:
"I will try configuring the supplied modem in bridged mode later today."

Just had a look at modem admin screen.
I see that bridged mode is available for the DSL port (input), but the VR1600V modem is supposed to connect to the NCD via an Ethernet cable from the EWAN port on the VR1600V modem.
Looking at the EWAN configuration, the only choices I can make are for
Internet Connection Type: Dynamic IP, Static IP or PPPoE - PPPoE was selected by default
Authentication Type: Auto, PAP, CHAP, MS-CHAP - Auto was selected by default
There is an option to enable VLAN ID
& there is a place to specify VLAN ID which TPG instructions say to set to 2.
I also enter my user name & password for the TPG service.
There are Advanced settings for MTU etc.

It does not seem that there is the possibility of configuring a bridged mode for the EWAN connection.

My understanding of the detailed technicalities here is limited.

Can I bypass the NCD & connect the DSL port of the VR1600V modem to the incoming line socket (from the street) & then configure the DSL interface in bridged mode ?
Does anyone know if that is a workable outcome & for that matter a technically sound thing to do.

In the DSL configuration screen, I can Add a new interface,
select VDSL or ADSL,
then select Bridge (from choices Static, Dynamic, PPPoE, Bridge)
then I can enable VLAN ID & enter 2 for that value.

Is it right to bypass the NCD ?

Thanks
Janet

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Offline sages

Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #7 on: January 14, 2020, 01:25:57 AM »
The NCD supplies power to the FTTC interface at the street as well as providing a bridged vdsl to ethernet modem. SHort answer is no, you can't bypass the NCD.

If TPG are using pppoe with your credentials and want are utilising vlan 2 then you'd need to replicate this on your sme wan interface.
Or, as you are asking about bridging your vr1600v modem, you'll have to google and/or ask TPG (good luck with their levels of tech support!).
As suggested, search on whirlpool (https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/). Someone else is sure to have done it or discovered if it can't be done.
A quick search on this forum suggests that there is no support for vlans https://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,43841.msg209874.html#msg209874

If you have a managed vlan switch you could use that to to the tag/untagging between the NCD and SME and utilise the pppoe support in the SME wan interface.
Another alternative would be to create a DMZ on the VR1600v modem and stick your sme server there in server only mode.

[edit] try this https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2717311 how to configure vr1600v in bridged mode just remember that you still need the NCD and you configure the vr1600v wan port to ethernet not dsl. you're essentially just using it as a smart switch to do the vlan tag/untagging
« Last Edit: January 14, 2020, 01:30:03 AM by sages »
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Offline janet

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #8 on: January 14, 2020, 01:44:07 AM »
Sages

Thanks, will go through it all later today
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Offline janet

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #9 on: January 16, 2020, 09:13:38 AM »
sages (& Reetp & TerryF)

Thanks for all that info, it was very useful

Quote
The NCD supplies power to the FTTC interface at the street.....

Oops, yeah, forgot that, so obvious too !

I see Charlie Brady indicated no VLAN support in SME server.

Quote
If you have a managed vlan switch you could use that to to the tag/untagging between the NCD and SME and utilise the pppoe support in the SME wan interface.

Something to try later.

Quote
try this https://forums.whirlpool.net.au/archive/2717311 how to configure vr1600v in bridged mode just remember that you still need the NCD and you configure the vr1600v wan port to ethernet not dsl. you're essentially just using it as a smart switch to do the vlan tag/untagging

I tried those settings but it appears to put the bridge onto the DSL interface (as far as I can tell).
I was NOT able to get a successful connection "test" to the Internet from the console of SME server.
It appears that configuration of the VR1600V modem is not viable.

Quote
Another alternative would be to create a DMZ on the VR1600v modem and stick your sme server there in server only mode.

For now pending further investigations, I concede defeat & will go for the server only configuration, as much as I would prefer server & gateway mode with a bridged modem.

Thanks
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Offline sages

Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #10 on: January 16, 2020, 09:30:13 AM »
If you really must use the vr1600v then just configure the lan switch to do the tag/untagging. Or any other modem/router that allows vlan tagging or a cheap managed switch. Then you can use the sme server in gateway mode.
Just remember to lock down the device.
...

Offline ReetP

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #11 on: January 16, 2020, 11:18:51 AM »
I see Charlie Brady indicated no VLAN support in SME server.

It doesn't as is, but CentOS does support it so 'in theory' SME can if you get the templating right.

https://www.thegeekdiary.com/centos-rhel-6-how-to-configure-802-1q-vlan-on-nic/
https://forums.centos.org/viewtopic.php?t=8875

I have no idea on implications beyond the basic networking - presumably you'd have to do some stuff on iptables etc.

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Offline Jean-Philippe Pialasse

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #12 on: January 16, 2020, 02:00:20 PM »
Discussed with Daniel about that.

Ha also suggest the managed switch to untag /tag the vlan.
An alternative could be an hypervisor doing the vlan tag untag with sme virtualized. eg. sme installed as vm in proxmox

The link suggested by John is also an option. You will need to do
db configuration setprop ExternalInterface Name eth1.2 

To get most script working with it including firewall. You will lose the ability to configure with console though. And have to check if interface comes up on reboot.


However i am not sure vlan is mandatory on you modem config.

Offline janet

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2020, 02:52:34 PM »
sages

Quote
..... Or any other modem/router that allows vlan tagging.......Then you can use the sme server in gateway mode.

I am thinking that may be the way to go.
I need to do some research on available modems & their specifications, one that will support bridging on the EWAN interface & also do VLAN tagging.

If using bridging mode to connect to SME server, then it is not required to use the VR1600V as any VOIP features provided will not work anyway eg where phone service is locked into modem by the provider.
In that situation I would get a NBN Internet only service without bundled phone line, so I can use any suitable modem.

Time is important here, I needed to move forward with placing the order for NBN, as the copper service does start cutting off on 14 February 2020, we had functionality here in Feb 2019.
So for now I will go with server only mode to get up & running, but look at simplest options for implementing server gateway mode if a suitable modem is available.

Quote
However i am not sure vlan is mandatory on you modem config.

The configuration instructions issued by the provider TPG, do say to enable VLAN ID & use a setting of 2, so their system does require that to be enabled.

Is there anyone out there who has actually done this (bridged modem on EWAN interface/VLAN tagging/SME server gateway mode/NBN) ? If so how ?
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Offline Jean-Philippe Pialasse

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Re: Connection to NBN in bridged mode
« Reply #14 on: January 16, 2020, 06:10:10 PM »
I have the reason of the vlan in your last post: to allow the phone service probably on vlan 1.
If no vlan no phone probably.