Koozali.org formerly Contribs.org

SME10 - the clock is ticking

Offline ReetP

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SME10 - the clock is ticking
« on: December 09, 2019, 10:51:50 PM »
Yes, the few of us who actually do anything here are acutely aware that time is running out on v9.

EOL is the end of 2020.

We are trying to push ahead with stuff but we are very very few, and there is a mountain of work to do, and that doesn't just mean coding.

Come and talk to us on Rocket.Chat where the idle chatter is happening.

Volunteer to do something. Anything. Don't just talk about it. Do it.

If you can't code you can document, test, or pay for a developer to help, or just chip in some cash. Right now man hours are more important than cash.

Don't wash your hands, walk away and say "I can't"' or "I don't have time".

We could do that ourselves, and then what would happen?

Koozali SME Server, like most Open Source software, is community based. Everyone in the community is responsible for it.

If v10 isn't released it isn't 'OUR' fault, and we won't have a conscience about it because we are trying.

It is EVERYONES fault, particularly that of those who did nothing.

B. Rgds
John
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline holck

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #1 on: December 12, 2019, 01:54:00 PM »
How do I join you on rocket.chat?

/Jesper H, Denmark
......

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #2 on: December 12, 2019, 02:09:03 PM »
How do I join you on rocket.chat?

DM me name and email address and I'll set up a user account for you :-)
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #3 on: December 18, 2019, 08:22:19 PM »
I have a series of servers installed; at present they are just under 10, half of which are "left to themselves" while still reading administrative emails for pure "personal pleasure". I was thinking in these days that, within a year, things will have to change.

I don't have high skills and I don't think I can be very helpful (except to say "this and that don't work"). The amounts I earn thanks to SME have been insignificant (let's say I have "entered" in some companies thanks to SME and then I have done something else), however I have to give support for the systems that are still active.

A couple of servers are exclusively used as fileservers so the problem (more or less) I don't ask myself, even after the EOL date they will only have that function and should not be a problem; but I have 3 that are used as mailserver, one also very used and with about 60GB of emails inside.

Not being able to be "technically" helpful and wanting to support both my client (who pays shit but is the head of one of my family member and so I have to give him assistance (almost for free)) and the "SME project", I was then wondering if a "substantial" donation (in addition to my annual $ 50) could help. Someone talked about "paying" one or more developers to carry out the necessary preparatory steps for the release of SME 10. How much work is there to do? If you had to pay a developer how much time (indicatively) is necessary? What could be a suitable donation?

Let me be clear ... I am a "poor man" who tries to make ends meet thanks also to SME, but I can try to sensitize some customers and see if I can pull something out.
Smeserver.it -  Soluzioni e supporto su Sme server in Italia

Offline TerryF

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #4 on: December 18, 2019, 09:47:23 PM »
When a few put up their hands to do something others follow..appreciated
--
qui scribit bis legit

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #5 on: December 20, 2019, 11:12:54 AM »
If you can't code you can document, test, or pay for a developer to help, or just chip in some cash. Right now man hours are more important than cash.
Hello sme world  8)

I would not be shocked if you publish a table which would state the financial needs concerning the hours of development necessary for the success of the new version.

If the need is financial, let's stop veiling our face and express it clearly: how many hours of development should we count? How many people are needed and how much does one hour per person cost?

Could we imagine crowdfunding once the total sum of needs has been expressed? And how do you set this up if ok?

Have a nice day,

--
Christophe

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #6 on: January 31, 2020, 12:21:52 AM »
Hello sme world  8)
Hi Christophe


Quote
I would not be shocked if you publish a table which would state the financial needs concerning the hours of development necessary for the success of the new version.

If the need is financial, let's stop veiling our face and express it clearly: how many hours of development should we count? How many people are needed and how much does one hour per person cost?

I have absolutely no idea how many man hours or what the cost might be.

We are chiselling away. But we are very few, and we all have other lives. No one currently working on SME really derives an income from it..... we all use it, but we are not really 'IT Specialists'. It is something we do in our spare time between wives, and families, and jobs, and life!!

Quote
Could we imagine crowdfunding once the total sum of needs has been expressed? And how do you set this up if ok?

The problem is there are several thousand servers out there, but most are so reliable that the admins rarely come here, so we have no real way to communicate with them, until they need something....

So I am not sure most would see an appeal for money. Or at least they won't see it until too late.

It also means we would have to spend a lot of time trying to find and brief a developer to help us.

It just isn't so simple (I wish it was!)

If anyone has any bright ideas then do let us know!
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #7 on: January 31, 2020, 12:26:49 AM »
If you have ANY interest at all in helping with development please come and talk to us.

Even if it is just running a test VM and trying things out to see what breaks. The more people test, the better it will be.

We are currently looking at:

Fixing Horde to work with the latest versions of PHP
Proper certificate support (if I can make it work !!)
Then another Alpha ISO

I am not sure what is next. We need to figure something with Samba 4.

PM me for a login to our Rocket.Chat instance and come and chat. We don't bite!

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #8 on: January 31, 2020, 12:52:40 AM »
An idea that should not be underestimated, which I had already expressed years ago, is to "impose" an annual payment for updates. It might be interesting to add it as "features" to version 10.
For each server instance, access to the smeupdates repositories is tied to a code, which would be obtained every year (or one-off) by paying a "donation" of a few dollars ... let's say 50 or 100.

I know that many will turn up their noses but it would be a good way to raise money to pay one or more full-time developers; in the end, precisely because of the fact that the installations are very numerous, this would allow to recover a good portion of economic resources.

... and sorry for the english, google translate is probably not the best but for long concepts I need it ... ^ _ ^
Smeserver.it -  Soluzioni e supporto su Sme server in Italia

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #9 on: January 31, 2020, 01:15:06 PM »
An idea that should not be underestimated, which I had already expressed years ago, is to "impose" an annual payment for updates. It might be interesting to add it as "features" to version 10.

The funny thing about open source is people don't expect to have to pay for it even when they are profiting from it... :-)

The number of times I have heard people wanting support and help 'here and now', but don't want to pay or donate, and won't help because they are 'too busy'. Yes - earning from SME....

It is 'frustrating'.

Like most open source projects, the way to go is probably with paid for support. However, we don't really have enough people to be able to support it 24/7 now (we did talk about this a number of years ago).

There has always been a case for 'paid for' contribs, but I know that people who did make them struggled to make any money.

In any event, none of of us are really keen on 'paid for' updates... we like it being open source, and we would need infrastructure to handle payments, licensing it etc etc etc so it isn't that simple.

Please donate to keep the infrastructure running, and PLEASE come and help. Even just chatting gives us some moral support! Testing, reporting bugs etc helps even more.

Quote
... and sorry for the english, google translate is probably not the best but for long concepts I need it ... ^ _ ^

You are doing fine so please don't worry!

Come and join us at chat.reetspetit.info and you can practice your English ;-) Just ask me for a login.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline gieres

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #10 on: January 31, 2020, 09:57:10 PM »

Even if it is just running a test VM and trying things out to see what breaks. The more people test, the better it will be.

Hello,
I would like to help but I don't even know how to install a virtual machine!
And I don't know how to test, either ...
If you want, we can make a real machine available, but since I am not a computer scientist, you would have to write procedures to say how to test. Because I don't think it exists in the wiki, does it?
Would the cost / benefit ratio still be interesting?
Good night.

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #11 on: February 01, 2020, 02:44:21 AM »
Hello,
I would like to help but I don't even know how to install a virtual machine!


Great!! First requirement is wanting to help. We can help with the rest!!

You don't need to be a scientist. Just interested in learning.

We are going to add some stuff on creating a test machine and what to do.

A lot of of us run Proxmox which is good.

You can even do basic testing even with virtual box.

I also have some SMEs on digital ocean and vultr.

The benefit with VMs is that you can snapshot, test, revert. Makes testing much easier

Give us a few days and we will try and sort something out.

Thank you for volunteering!!
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Online Jean-Philippe Pialasse

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #12 on: February 01, 2020, 05:11:02 AM »

If the need is financial, let's stop veiling our face and express it clearly: how many hours of development should we count? How many people are needed and how much does one hour per person cost?

Could we imagine crowdfunding once the total sum of needs has been expressed? And how do you set this up if ok?
Christophe,
Here is a late answer.
I would say just in term of dev time without the testing and without implementation of samba 4 AD it would represent 3 months of one full time perl developper with experience with all the services implicated in SME and systemd.
It is both not that much and a lot depending on the perspective.

For the cost per hour, well it will greatly depends on where is living the developper, but also we are asking for a very particular profile. In clear words we are asking for a perl/bash developper who is also a system administrator... not quite the same jobs and trainings.

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #13 on: February 01, 2020, 10:10:13 AM »
As an example, I use Dolibarr ERP/CRM to manage my shop and I need to use accountancy advanced module.
For three years, the Dolibarr association has called on financial participation for the development of this module (luck, the main dev is accountable  8-) ).
Here is the link wich reveals the spreadsheet for the course per year and Dolibarr versions (sorry, in french) :
https://www.open-dsi.fr/financement-participatif-2019-bilan-et-quelques-nouvelles-du-module-comptabilite-dolibarr/

The progression is well structured and organized in stages over a year. As long as level 1 is not exceeded in financial terms, the development concerning requests for improvements, various corrections, etc., does not start and remain as it is. When a level is crossed, the dev begins and we pass to level 2, etc ...
In fact, a survey is set up to collect the opinion of the participants on the need or not to use the funds according to the importance of the functionality concerned :
https://nextcloud.open-dsi.fr/index.php/apps/polls/poll/BP1ATFnmSEpMKHWx
There is a report published at least once a week which reports on the progress of development, what has been achieved, what is missing in the objective, it is quite reassuring and good for confidence.

If we look on the forum, the 4 levels were crossed in not even a month with around twenty contributors :
https://www.dolibarr.fr/forum/t/financement-participatif-compta-2019-go/29289

So I am aware that we are talking about a developed operating system but finally, there are models, why not take inspiration from them ? It's a total success  :-o

Note: I am not a developer and my knowledge is very limited in this area. I am not a project manager either and I have no experience in this area.
But I can participate in translation, tests and of course financially.

Have a nice week-end

Offline stephdl

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2020, 07:28:41 PM »
I would say just in term of dev time without the testing and without implementation of samba 4 AD it would represent 3 months of one full time perl developper with experience with all the services implicated in SME and systemd.

Don't put too much effort in Samba AD, RHEL has dropped the support for rhel8, openldap is obsoleted, so now it is Free IPA the next solution. Moreover if you read the Samba documentation, the implementation needs two servers, one for the file server, the other for the authentication (samba AD), for sure this can be used with a container, or with a remote account provider but no one is easy (of course hard should  never be a blocking point)

Obviously systemd is a good development goal from my point view and it worths really an implementation.
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