Koozali.org formerly Contribs.org

SME10 - the clock is ticking

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #30 on: March 05, 2020, 06:49:22 PM »
It is unfair to few developers here to shoulder all this work by themselves. That is why we need to spread the word and get more people involved by advertising project on codetriage.com and many other similar sites.

Yes, and we can only do so much.

However, to get new developers on board it means we will have to stop developing and spend time hunting. And then teaching/mentoring. No dev is going to be able to just 'leap in' and do things-  they need to understand the underlying systems, what needs fixing etc etc. It is not as simple as as it sounds, and pretty time consuming.

What we really need are people who use SME and have a reasonable grasp of the basics to step up to the plate and come and learn some more. Quite frequently they are the people earning money from SME as well..... (or at the least saved themselves a lot of money)

If every admin who used SME donated 2 hours a week of their time we'd have something like 15,000+ man hours a week. Let alone the number of users that are also supported who could possibly help.

It really is that simple.

It is time that is the most valuable commodity right now.

if you really can't do that then donate to keep the hardware running. Or follow up on some of your ideas yourself and encourage others to do so - I just haven't got the time myself between a full time job and trying to code here.

There are really only 4 of us writing any code at the minute.

Terry is Mr Test  - he doesn't really code much but and spends hours on testing and verification. Boring shitty rinse and repeat, but vital, and the reason your SME is usually so stable. He is a God.

I have spent the last week or more with him updating the PHPKi contrib for certs which need to be updated to to go with my ipsec contrib because that has been updated, and also trying to get a replacement for PPTP which is horribly insecure, all of which I use at work - my justification for working in SME.

So you don't all need to be whizz bang coders - there are plenty of other things to do like testing and verification and bug hunting.

It just needs enthusiasm, willingness to learn, and a bit of motivation to get off your butts and volunteer.

Simples :-)

If anyone wants to chat then do like 'csn' did above and come and talk to us on Rocket.Chat

We are just ordinary people, and we don't bite!! (we actually share some really bad jokes too.....!!)
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

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Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #31 on: March 05, 2020, 07:00:04 PM »
How about promoting this project on:
https://www.codetriage.com/

Unfortunately that is github related and currently we don't use github.

Why? Because it is a huge amount of work and we just don't the time or people right now.

Many people don't realise but we have an automated build system for packages

I grab a copy of the code from CVS
Modify the package
Test build it locally to check for failures
<Here comes the trick bit>
Submit it to Buildsys
Buildsys then automatically pickups up the code, queues, builds, checks for failures and then signs the packages
<^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^>
You can then install from a test repo
Once tested and verified we manually it to a release repo

The tricky bit is the automated building.
Buildsys is currently wired to talk with CVS. The backend code is scary!!!!!

Converting that all to git will take a lot of work. It may happen at some stage, but it is just not that easy.....

We need to get v10 done log before we worry about that.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

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Offline Jean-Philippe Pialasse

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  • aka Unnilennium
    • http://smeserver.pialasse.com
Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #32 on: March 06, 2020, 06:15:21 AM »
To add pootle translation interface is wired with cvs repo to generated missing translation to fill and also patch to apply on new translation available.


This code IS the scariest ;)
It ´s full of pythons.

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #33 on: March 06, 2020, 02:24:52 PM »
To add pootle translation interface is wired with cvs repo to generated missing translation to fill and also patch to apply on new translation available.

This code IS the scariest ;)
It´s full of pythons.

Ugly !!!!

I don't like snakes....
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #34 on: March 06, 2020, 06:14:27 PM »

No, we built it for testing but nothing for production as yet.

The whole field is shifting and we need to have a think about what to do with this.

We try to align with RH/Centos as much as possible to save ourselves work.

If they have dropped S4 + AD we need to decide which route to pursue and whether ro rely on a 3rd party.

This may sound silly, but wouldn't releasing SME 10 with RHEL/COS non AD/DC samba 4.9 make thing much easier? I gues there shouldn't be so many differences between SME 9 an 10. PDC type domains should work for the next 4 years and SMB1 could be easily turned off. Nobody should use Win XP anymore. W7, W8 and hopefully Win10 should be just fine.

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #35 on: March 06, 2020, 08:44:13 PM »
Quote
This may sound silly, but wouldn't releasing SME 10 with RHEL/COS non AD/DC samba 4.9 make thing much easier?

If you came and talked to us on Rocket.Chat or followed the bugs you'd realise that is not going to happen in a hurry.

Getting v10 finished will be a huge task even without Samba AD, and so far we have a lot of people making suggestions and pretty well no one actually doing any work.

Everyone thinks it is someone elses problem or that they don't know enough to help.

This is bullshit.

EVERYONE is responsible for producing a distro. Not just me or JP or Terrry.

If v10 doesn't get finished in time you are as guilty as anyone else.

So, less talk and more action please.

Stop making excuses.

Get INVOLVED.

DO something.

Don't tell us you haven't time or knowledge. What makes you think I have??

Start your testing here:

https://wiki.contribs.org/SME10.0_QA

Ask me for a rocket account.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #36 on: March 07, 2020, 03:51:15 AM »
Getting v10 finished will be a huge task even without Samba AD

Then jumping directly to COS8 would make so much more sense...

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #37 on: March 08, 2020, 01:55:00 AM »
Then jumping directly to COS8 would make so much more sense...

You clearly have no idea about the complexities involved here. If you actually got involved and did something to help instead of sniping from your armchair you might understand a bit more.

If it COS8 'makes sense' to you then go right ahead and build it. I look forward to seeing your work on it. Let us know when it is done and we can all migrate.

Thanks.

I'm going for beer and popcorn and waiting to see your handiwork.

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #38 on: March 08, 2020, 05:46:07 AM »
You clearly have no idea about the complexities involved here.

You're absolutely right!
However I did some reading yesterday and I have a feeling that the future with Samba4 and Win10 is going to be a constant headache. It seems that SMB1 is the only way and they want to force everyone to move to windows server.

https://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,53587.msg278605.html#msg278605

https://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=10429#c9

https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/Required_Settings_for_Samba_NT4_Domains#Windows_10_and_Windows_Server_2016:_There_Are_Currently_No_Logon_Servers_Available_to_Service_the_Logon_Request

Will get back to work in a month or so and then I'll be able to do some more testing with the latest SME10 and Win10. I'll also test what SMB level is used in ClearOS/NehtServer 7, maybe in an AD/DC domain Win10 behaves differently and SMB2/3 works with Samba4.

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #39 on: March 08, 2020, 02:23:12 PM »
You're absolutely right!

Probably.


Quote
However I did some reading yesterday and I have a feeling that the future with Samba4 and Win10 is going to be a constant headache. It seems that SMB1 is the only way and they want to force everyone to move to windows server.

Seriously save yourself some time & trouble unless it is purely for educational purposes.

We are well aware of the problems and complexities involved. Some of us have been looking at this for several years.

Greg Zartman, who wrote some of the test S4 AD code here and who is one of my best friends, knows more about this than anyone.

Yes, M$ wants you to use their cloud/servers and/or other online type authent systems which are a pain. But equally SMB1 is old hat.

There are solutions, but it is a constantly moving feast. Yes, going Samba 4 and full AD looked the way ahead, but that seems now to have fallen by the wayside. It is also extremely complicated, and any one who has built packages from source usually then hides them behind a pay wall - like Sernet did. RH are clearly moving away from S4 AD  - they never really committed due to the encryption/authent systems they prefer to use (see kerberos et al).

If you are on Linux or Mac none of this is really a drama. The only people who have issues are Windows users.

The problems for them particularly are network share browsing, and domain authentication.

Either way, building a full S4 AD implementation is NOT going to happen in the short term unless someone wants to build it. And in the medium to long term it may not be the direction required anyway.

Quote
Will get back to work in a month or so and then I'll be able to do some more testing with the latest SME10 and Win10. I'll also test what SMB level is used in ClearOS/NehtServer 7, maybe in an AD/DC domain Win10 behaves differently and SMB2/3 works with Samba4.

Well, we know what levels are used already and the issues involved so save yourself that.

But straight forward testing, verification and bug fixing in SME v10 will be the best way to contribute. There is plenty to do.

And as I have said many times, if you talk to us on Rocket.Chat you will get answers to a lot of these things, and save me the time writing it all out again.

And again, don't just sit there procrastinating. Go and look at the jobs we actually need doing and do something.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #40 on: March 08, 2020, 08:02:43 PM »

Either way, building a full S4 AD implementation is NOT going to happen in the short term


Then I realy don't understand why not just go with RHEL/COS Samba 4.9 in PDC mode (for the next 3,5 years).

https://wiki.samba.org/index.php/FAQ#Samba_as_NT4_Primary_Domain_Controller


Well, we know what levels are used already and the issues involved so save yourself that.


I'm just trying to figure out which way to go next year: PDC, Samba4 AD/DC or throw money at MS for CALs.

Sorry for annoying you, it was not my intention.

Offline ReetP

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Re: SME10 - the clock is ticking
« Reply #41 on: March 08, 2020, 11:28:13 PM »
Quote
Then I realy don't understand why not just go with RHEL/COS Samba 4.9 in PDC mode (for the next 3,5 years).

Who said we wouldn't?

You are chasing your own tail here and doing nothing but confuse yourself.

You don't understand much because you have chosen to not get involved in the conversations as to what we will do, despite saying several times to get involved. You have half read bits here & there and not really understood anything at all so you are now needlessly asking pointless questions and wasting time.

Please, either join in properly with development and help build the system how you want it, or sit and wait quietly whilst we see if we have time to finish v10.

This thread was to point out that if you want to see v10 then stop talking, and do something to help.

That is still the case. I for one don't have time for any more of this waffle.

Please ask for a login at our rocket.chat and ask us there, or follow with your testing via bugs etc.

Thank you.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions of software
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation