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SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1

SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« on: January 03, 2019, 06:02:12 PM »
First off - apologies if I have put this in the incorrect area.

I have an old SME server 8.1 install that I am planning to upgrade - it seems to be working fine atm. This machine currently has just one 160GB HDD (I know, I know) and I have been meaning to upgrade it to Raid-1 for quite a while now. I have purchased 2x new HDD for the upgrade to Raid-1 but have hit a problem.

Hardware:
HP-ML115 2.2 Quad Core 1354 CPU, 8GB RAM
Current single HDD - 160GB (probably 6+ years old)
New HDD - 2x Western Digital Blue 1TB desktop Hard-Disk-Drive 7200 RPM, SATA 6Gb, 64MB Cache, 3.5in ... £41.95 ea.

My plan was to upgrade to Raid-1 and then upgrade the software to - Koozali SME Server 9.2. Perhaps an upgrade to one of the HP Microservers also. However, one step at a time.

I am having a problem at the first hurdle.

I knew that I needed to format the new HDD's EXT3 or EXT4.
I hooked them up to my desktop computer SATA cable + power and tried to format using GParted. It became clear that first-off I needed to select a 'PARTITION TABLE TYPE'. After having read up on it, I decided to use GPT (from a choice of GPT and MSDOS). I then chose Ext3, however after 2hrs+ I read that Ext3 was notorious for taking ages to format and that Ext4 was MUCH faster. I switched to formatting Ext4 and it was done (apparently) in ~2mins or less.

I connected the newly formatted WD-1TB HDD to a spare SATA cable in the HP-ML115, connected power and switched on the server. I could no longer access it remotely and attaching a local screen and keyboard to the previously 'headless' server showed a blank screen - nothing. I powered down and disconnected the new HDD and switched the power on again - all normal. I could remote access Server Manager, the newly connected local HP-ML115 screen showed the SME logo.

I switched the SATA cables (maybe they were in the wrong order) - reconnecting the new WD-1TB HDD. Powered up - all fine. However, the local monitor attached to the HP-ML115 says 'Login:' but does not respond (I successfully accessed the server this way a couple of days ago). I have pressed 'Enter' and nothing - in fact, after about 10 mins the screen goes blank. Hitting enter (or any other key) doesn't change this. If I power off/on the HP-ML115, I get back to the non-responsive 'Enter'. I can still access 'Server Manager' over the LAN.

The problems:
1) I am hoping that the new WD-1TB HDD has now synced and I can then replace the original 160GB HDD with the second WD-1TB HDD.
2) I would like to be able to check that everything is ok by local access and then option (5).
3) I have never done this before and am concerned that I have made a misstep.

Can anyone see an obvious blunder?

I would appreciate some advice.

Thanks
Charles
« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 09:48:42 PM by Charles2008 »

Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2019, 06:44:39 PM »
Re-reading my own post, I am wondering whether I am going about this completely incorrectly.

I think that I am right in saying that there is no direct (easy) upgrade path SME-8 -> Koozali-9. I think that this means that I will have to create a new machine with 9.2 running (with 2x HDD's in Raid-1) and then copy across my database and iBay contents. Is that right?

Anyway, I would still be very interested to know what I am doing wrong.

Online TerryF

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Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2019, 07:17:08 PM »
Yes to your last comment

1. Backup the old system to a suitable device, console backup being the easiest
2. New box new HDs. new sme9.2 install medium, DVD, USB, begin the install, at first reboot when asked do you want to restore from backup Yes and bobs your uncle..

The backup of the old system will get the ibays, dbs, user space everything, Read the wiki its all there, and yes you were going about the upgrading of the HD size in your first post the wrong way, again its all in the wiki
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Offline ReetP

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Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2019, 11:08:20 PM »
First off - apologies if I have put this in the incorrect area.


Nope - this is fine.

Quote
I have an old SME server 8.1 install that I am planning to upgrade - it seems to be working fine atm.

And short of bugs found it which will never be fixed, it will probably run until the end of time. But it is nearly 2 years since there were any updates and you are vulnerable to any potential exploits.

It is very difficult to upgrade in place from 8 to 9. That was down to changes RedHat decided to make, not us.

Quote
Hardware:
HP-ML115 2.2 Quad Core 1354 CPU, 8GB RAM
Current single HDD - 160GB (probably 6+ years old)
New HDD - 2x Western Digital Blue 1TB desktop Hard-Disk-Drive 7200 RPM, SATA 6Gb, 64MB Cache, 3.5in ... £41.95 ea.

Keep yourself a spare on the shelf. Desktop drives are not really designed to be run 24/7. The Reds are probably better for your usage. Technically Enterprise are the best but cost a whole heap more.

Quote
Can anyone see an obvious blunder?


Don't format your new drives yourself - make sure they are completely clean before you install, so wipe out those partitions completely. SME will format them for you.

Assuming your v8 drive is still A OK then do as Terry suggested. Backup, create new v9 server, restore.

There are some faster ways where you can get it to restore direct from the old drive, but if you aren't that confident then leave well alone. Plenty of material on the wiki about this.

...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2019, 11:42:40 AM »
Thank you TerryF and ReetP for your informative replies.

Yes, I am going to go the 'new hardware' route as TerryF suggested. New SME-9.2 box +  'Console Backup' to/from USB device.

Actually, I did purchase a 3rd identical (cheapo) HDD when I bought the other two. This was because I remembered that SME-user Purvis had recommended buying 3 at a time, as when you need the third, it may no longer be available / identical. I had thought of buying WD 'blacks', but they are much more expensive and my current 160GB is a cheapo and has been in near continuous use (abuse) for 6, more likely 7, years.

"so wipe out those partitions completely." - thank you for this advise.

I will report back.
Charles

Offline ReetP

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Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2019, 12:59:57 PM »
Black Enterprise ones are a lot more. Seems the general consensus is they are quite possibly reds with a better warranty :-)

I was going to use blacks in my rack server but Tony Keane & Greg Zartman said don't bother and use reds..... they had for a long time & were ok, and my experience is the same.

The blues are asking for trouble though. They really are the cheap desktop stuff (cheap for a reason.....) and not really for 24/7 servers. At least get a red as a spare and keep it on the shelf, or run a 3 drive RAID 1.

You can never be too careful with your data.....

Good luck with the upgrade. Please ask if you have further questions.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Offline sages

Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2019, 02:51:32 PM »
From my experience since e-smith 4.ancient
+1 for WD Reds.
-lots for seagate anything.
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Offline brianr

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Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2019, 04:03:05 PM »
I've used desktop HD for SMEServers for at least 10 years, always in Raid1 pairs and never had a double failure. I recently (2-3 years) bought some Red drives for a server, and one needed replacing recently.

Its just the great pendulum in the sky!!
Brian j Read
(retired, but still looking after 5 SME installations)
.........

Offline ReetP

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Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2019, 07:47:35 PM »
Yeah I used to use desktop drives years ago..... all I could afford. Continual prayer job.....

Since I swapped to red or black I haven't had an issue but of the few installs I look after for friends who use cheap drives they experienced lots of failures, though fortunately not 2 at the same time...

YMMV :-)
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2019, 09:19:41 PM »
...   I thought that my 10 year old (yes, I looked) Seagate Barracuda 160GB HDD, run solo 24/7 for the last 7 years, was hair-raising enough (although long-time SME-user Hawk, apparently only recommends a solo HDD set-up "I don't trust RAID and think that it slows the server down, I just have a good back up system")

These stories of cheapo HDD failures will keep me awake at night :)

Well - SUCCESS. Really pleased this end. Thank you TerryF and ReetP. That 'Console Backup' to/from USB drive was totally PAINLESS. I don't know how I missed this upgrade / back-up technique all these years. What has had me dancing a jig all around the kitchen is that I haven't had to reload my Contribs or iBay software, or hook up a database - it was all done for me - Wahooo!

You know, I run some 'accounts' on my little server (PhreeBooks - https://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,53746.0.html) and I have been wondering how I might save my set-up to an annually produced DVD with PDF copies of all invoices etc. I had all sorts of convoluted plans - but no, now all I need is this 'Console Backup' to/from USB and I can recreate my accounts EXACTLY as they were the day after I prepared them - every year going forward. Breakthrough! And so easy.

LEARNINGS (for me):
- how super-easy this upgrade method is. I have used the AFFA (rise) method before and didn't like it anyway near as much.
- I was surprised to find that using the 'Console Backup' to/from USB method meant that I got an exact copy install on my new OS - up and running IMMEDIATELY. No messing about re-installing Contribs / databases / iBay software.
- I did my back-up and restore to an 8GB pen-drive (2.2 GB .tgz file). It worked FINE. I was expecting it to take ages to download/upload. No, < 30 mins. I am sure that I should have used a proper big-boys external HDD.

That was a great Koozali / SMEserver experience. Thank you for your help.

ReetP a question - You mention "or run a 3 drive RAID 1" - is this using the 3rd WD-1TB-Blue as a 'Hot-spare'? I must read up on that. Do I add it through the Console?

Note - During the Koozali-9.2 install I noticed, amongst all the lines and lines of info flying up the screen, that my new HDD's had been auto-formatted during the install procedure to Ext4.



« Last Edit: January 04, 2019, 09:40:44 PM by Charles2008 »

Online TerryF

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2019, 10:08:33 PM »
Normally you would reinstall any contribs after doing the restore as well as any custom templates. the backup will get any data and configs and restore those to the new setup.

If you are lucky the contrib you are using is in an ibay etc the backup will get it as well, all DBs are always part of the backup.

but it is considered normal/good practice to reinstall all and any contribs as well as any custom templates after the new installation is complete and up and running.

Yes it is a godsend though when building a new setup and your backup size is manageable.
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Offline ReetP

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2019, 12:38:46 AM »
Single drive over RAID?

It depends on your setup..... so yes a RAID 1 mirror might be a little slower writing but much faster reading. And it's more secure.... replacing a failed drive is a helluva lot faster and easier than a restore from backup, period.

Once you start running some serious RAID setups there is no comparison, especially once you start using battery backed read/write cache on hardware Raid (the advantage over software raid is the caching)

My old rack box runs Proxmox with Raid 6 with r/w1gb cache and SME in a VM. I can read or write large files up to about 500 - 600mb in the blink of an eye as most of it is cached - the limiter becomes the desktop or network. And we throw lots of large artwork files around. The drives can catch up if they are really that slow. But better drives have bigger/faster caches too..... I was gobsmacked when I first fired it up....

Previous was a ML 310 with 4 x 1TB black drives in 2 Raid 1 mirrors and 512mb cache with Prox & SME...... it was no slouch over my previous home built stuff.

Do some serious reading about cost/performance with different Raid types.....plenty online.

Note I use Raid 6 for security over perfomance as it is fast enough for me. Raid 10 is that much faster at the cost of security.

A 3 drive Raid 1... you can add the 3rd as a hot spare which it will activate in the event of a failure, but quite honestly you may as well add it as active for more read speed...

Backups... check the admin panel and schedule it as you want... no interaction required !! See the wiki for more.

As Terry said, you need to reinstall your contribs. A lot have updates in v9.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2019, 10:56:42 PM »
I can see that I will have to investigate adding the third HDD to the array.

https://wiki.contribs.org/Raid

I am much happier that I now have a Raid-1 up and working.

Once again, thank you for your help,

Online TerryF

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2019, 11:30:57 PM »
Go well mate, may your HDs enjoy themselves amongst friends :-)
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qui scribit bis legit

Offline ReetP

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #14 on: January 06, 2019, 12:06:15 AM »
I am much happier that I now have a Raid-1 up and working.

Me too :-)
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation

Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2019, 09:59:54 PM »
Does this photo of my Raid-1 details screen look ok?

I was expecting to see something like:

Sda-1, same number
Sda-2, same number

However, what I see is:
md0 : sda1[0] sdb1[1] 255936
md1 : sda2[0] sdb2[1] 976373760    ...   different number

You may recall that in the process of setting up my Koozali-9.2 server, I 'wiped' the Partitions on my HDD's using Dparted.
Does the attached jpg show otherwise?

Thanks
Charles

Online TerryF

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #16 on: January 08, 2019, 11:01:50 PM »
All good mate, that's what you want to see..mine with two ssds in a raid1, also have a separate 2tb drive mounted for ibays, data etc
« Last Edit: January 08, 2019, 11:08:33 PM by TerryF »
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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #17 on: January 08, 2019, 11:17:56 PM »
@TerryF

Thank you very much for responding in detail.

I am relieved.

Charles

Online TerryF

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2019, 02:49:32 AM »
This # cat /proc/mdstat from a ssh session will also give all the same info, good for when away from the actual box

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Offline ReetP

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Re: SOLVED - Upgrade path to 9.2 - problem with Raid-1
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2019, 10:36:31 AM »
The layout is correct.

md0 is the boot partition and md1 everything else.

Cat /etc/fstab to see.
...
1. Read the Manual
2. Read the Wiki
3. Don't ask for support on Unsupported versions
4. I have a job, wife, and kids and do this in my spare time. If you want something fixed, please help.

Bugs are easier than you think: http://wiki.contribs.org/Bugzilla_Help

If you love SME and don't want to lose it, join in: http://wiki.contribs.org/Koozali_Foundation