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Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/

Offline jonson

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Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« on: April 12, 2015, 09:21:03 AM »
Hi guys in sme server sometimes i cannot send email over outlook using sme server 8.x
when i send message it not reach why
using putty i write the following command
tail -f /var/log/qmail/current
and in messages i notice that message show to me
deferral: Connected_to_127.0.0.1_but_greeting_failed./Remote_host_said:_451_Upstream_SMTP_server_not_available/
This problem is repeated every times it work may be one week then show after this also
email send then stop
How to solve this problem and what can make that problem
my settings is already fixed but the problem sending email is ok working some period
and some period not work
and after that come
can you tell me what problem

Offline mmccarn

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #1 on: April 12, 2015, 02:45:20 PM »
My first guess is that your SME server is relaying outbound email through an external SMTP server, and that the external server has a daily, weekly, or monthly limit on the number of emails you are allowed to relay.

Some ISPs set this daily limit quite low (100 emails per day), but will raise it if asked.  Or, your relay limit may be adequate, but you may have an infected workstation or email routing loop relaying a high number of outbound email.

Here is an old bug discussing the same error that you're seeing with some potential troubleshooting steps:
http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=5854

Here are some wiki resources on general email troubleshooting and monitoring:
http://wiki.contribs.org/Mail_log_file_analysis
http://wiki.contribs.org/Email_Statistics

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #2 on: April 16, 2015, 07:24:05 AM »
Thank you for reply
if i need to increase limit what i do

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #3 on: April 16, 2015, 10:31:35 AM »
And How to increase limit
and what i o to increase

Offline Stefano

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #4 on: April 16, 2015, 11:03:06 AM »
since is a limit imposed by ISP, you must call your ISP's helpdesk, you can't do anything on your side (but, please check you have no infected pc on your lan)

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #5 on: April 19, 2015, 04:30:43 PM »
What i do to check that no infected pc in my workstation

Offline Stefano

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2015, 04:47:49 PM »
first of all disconnect your lan from internet

then, power on each client and scan it with a good and uptodated antivirus..


Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2015, 07:29:09 AM »
Thank you for reply
if i call isp what i will tell them about my request

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #8 on: April 22, 2015, 08:12:36 AM »
I call my isp it tell me your ip is in our firewall and we remove it
then i test it work one hour then after this not work again
then i call them again he tell me your ip in black list and we remove it from black list and test it
i test it it work one hour then not work again
please what i do in this case
i don't know can you give me suggestions or solutions to this problem

Offline Stefano

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #9 on: April 22, 2015, 10:18:36 AM »
if your ip is in some BL you have a problem on your side

did you check your clients?
is your SME running any kind of website?

if you want help, you must help us to help you

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2015, 12:09:33 PM »
Thank you for reply
what is the meaning of sme running any kind of website

Offline Stefano

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #11 on: April 22, 2015, 12:26:16 PM »
jonson:

does your SME server act as a public web server? did you setup any kind of CMS (i.e. wordpress, joomla, $whatever) on your SME?

moreover: I see only questions coming from you, but no answers.. it's quite difficult to help you

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #12 on: April 22, 2015, 03:51:09 PM »
Thank you for reply
no it is for email server only
not using for any thing like web or sharing
only mail server
and i installed in every computer eset end point antivirus

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2015, 06:41:06 AM »
How i know my ip in black list and how to remove it from black list

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #14 on: April 23, 2015, 07:20:10 AM »
jonson

For starters go to
https://www.spamhaus.org/

Please do not ask us how to do it, you need to read the information provided on that website, it tells you everything you need to know.
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
The Search & other links to useful information are at top of Forum.

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2015, 10:53:48 PM »
Thank you for reply
i search for ip i found this ip in PBL
I removed but still problem exist
what i do

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2015, 10:57:29 PM »
The problem when i call isp sometimes it tell me
problem in limit of email sending
some times tell me problem in you ip in blacklist
what id to solve
really i don't know
i search i found my ip in pbl
i removed but still problem exist

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #17 on: April 25, 2015, 01:35:58 AM »
jonson

1)
Quote
The problem when i call isp sometimes it tell me
problem in limit of email sending
and
2)
Quote
some times tell me problem in you ip in blacklist....i search i found my ip in pbl, i removed but still problem exist

So you have two problems & you need to troubleshoot them both, although the cause of one of those problems could result in the second problem happening.

You need to tell us your servers external IP so we can check.
You need to tell us your ISP name & smtp mail server address so we can check/test.

Have you ran a antivirus scan on all connected workstations & made sure none of them is infected (note that an infected workstation could be sending huge amounts of spam & virus infected email messages) ?

Have you physically disconnected each workstation (ie the LAN cable) & leaving it disconnected, then do the same on the next workstation & so on. Eventually all workstations will be disconnected. At some point you should (may) observe outward bound mail flow stops, if so you may have found the source of the problem.

Even if you have done the above & cleared all workstations as not being infected, it is possible that workstations can become infected again, & therefore start sending spam messages again.

So if your problems keep recurring (which you say they are), then you need to do a antivirus scan on your workstations again & run through the LAN cable disconnection procedure again.

If someone (either inadvertantly or deliberately) is sending large amounts of messages, then your mail sending limits at your ISP will quickly become exceeded, thus blocking you from sending any email at all.

One answer to that is to request your ISP to increase your sending limit.

It is also possible that your server has been hacked or compromised, & is sending large amounts of "rubbish" mail, which results in you being blacklisted.

Note that removing your server IP from a blacklist does not instantly mean your blacklisting is instantly non effective. It can take many hours to propagate throughout the Internet & for your ISPs rejection filters to no longer see your IP as being blacklisted. It is also possible & highly probable that your server IP is on other blacklists, & mail will still be blocked. You have to search for other lists & request removal of your IP.

Ultimately you MUST stop your server from being blacklisted repeatedly, as regularly having to remove your IP is NOT the best answer, you are effectively "chasing your own tail" getting nowhere.

Are you sending mail via your ISPs smtp server ?
Check this in server manager Email panel & if blank you should enter their details eg smtp.isp.com
Mail will always go via your ISP & then be sent to other mail servers, they will see the mail coming from a trusted IP (the IP of your ISP) rather than coming directly from your sme mail server IP (which is blacklisted). This will prevent mail being rejected by recipients mail servers, assuming your ISP is a good quality one & reputable.

What version of sme server are you running ?
Is it fully updated, ie have you ran these commands in the last few days ?
yum update
followed by
signal-event post-upgrade
signal-event reboot

Also do you have antivirus scanning enabled on the server (in server manager) ?

You can use software tools like
iptraf
to look at your server activity
Also you can look at log files like

qpsmtpd/current
and
qmail

Look in server manager View log files panel for easy to read format log files, these should show the source of email messages eg IP of workstation(s) or maybe the server itself as the sender.

Also please describe to us how your sme server is being used, is it a file server, how many connected workstations, is it a web server hosting web sites, do these websites have interactive pages where users can post or upload data, do these websites use CMS apps or similar (eg Joomla, Wordpress, Drupal or other PHP apps etc), how many other contribs are installed, are there any other special applications installed etc ?

Do you keep these apps/contribs updated ?

It is possible that a web application hosted on your server is compromised or hacked & is using your server as a mail relay to send spam etc, thus resulting in your IP being blacklisted & mail limits exceeded.

You can disable the web application(s) one by one by disabling the ibay Internet access & see if the mail flow suddenly stops. If so, then have the site updated to get rid of any security issues or reinstall or restore from a known good backup (before the hack occurred).

There is a lot more that can be said, but the above is enough for one reply, so go through what I have said, answer ALL questions asked, & check ALL things suggested. Something should be discovered that will give a clue. If not keep looking.

Report back here your answers & results. Please do not skip or miss questions or hurriedly supply us with insufficiently detailed information.

If you do not know how to do the above, then you need to hire a expert consultant.


Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
The Search & other links to useful information are at top of Forum.

Offline ahmedsa

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #18 on: April 26, 2015, 07:11:23 AM »
Thank you for reply
External ip is 78.93.244.61
domain altawi.com.sa
isp name awal

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #19 on: April 26, 2015, 05:15:51 PM »
ahmedsa

Show output of following command
config show SMTPSmartHost
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Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #20 on: April 26, 2015, 07:27:41 PM »
Thank you for reply
when i run this command
config show SMTPSmartHost
IT SHOW
SMTPSmartHost altawi.com.sa

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #21 on: April 26, 2015, 08:23:40 PM »
jonson

Are you the same person as ahmedsa ?

Quote
SMTPSmartHost altawi.com.sa

According to what you said earlier in this thread, your domain name (on your sme server) is
altawi.com.sa
& your ISP name is
awal

I assume the ISP is awalnet.com/en

According to this page
http://www.awalnet.com/en/cons_cust_shooting_outlook_microsoft.php
the smtp server address of your iSP is
smtp.awalnet.net.sa

So for the SMTPSmartHost setting you should change it to
smtp.awalnet.net.sa
If that is not correct then you should check with awal & ask them specifically for the name of their smtp server that you can use.

This incorrect setting is likely the cause of your problems.
You can change it in server manager Email panel, or via command line.
« Last Edit: April 26, 2015, 08:25:23 PM by janet »
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Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #22 on: April 26, 2015, 08:47:38 PM »
Thank you for reply
my sme server is not new it is working before 5 years and my settings already fixed
and i can recieve email from outside domain no problem
and i can send to outside domain but it two much time late to reach(from one week)
before that every thing working very quickly
Meaning problem start before one week
so that i ask actually what the problem that can make email sending take too much time to send
outside domain and this is very slow
normal to sending in my domain take one minute or less
my computeres work in workstation is 30
and i use sme server 7.5
antivirus used is Eset End point updated until today
recieving not have any problem
only send take too much time may be 4 hour to send and after this reach


Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #23 on: April 26, 2015, 08:53:16 PM »
This problem before one week
Why this problem happened although my external ip
is working and ping and my server status give me success connected to internet

Offline DanB35

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #24 on: April 26, 2015, 09:13:05 PM »
and i use sme server 7.5
1.  If you're using SME 7.5, why are you (1) posting in the SME 8 forums, and (2) posting in the contribs forums?
2.  SME 7.5 is EOL, and you really should upgrade to at least 8.1, and preferably 9.0.
3.  As janet asked, are you the same person as ahmedsa?  If not, it gets a little confusing when you're responding to questions directed to that user.
......

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #25 on: April 26, 2015, 09:19:45 PM »
Thank you for reply
if my version is problem
How it work before that without any problem and more quickly

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #26 on: April 26, 2015, 09:20:16 PM »
yes my same user

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #27 on: April 26, 2015, 09:25:34 PM »
jonson

You have already been told, so stop re-asking the same question, read the answers given.
You provide us with very little feedback & information so we cannot give you a magic exact answer, but it appears your ISP may have changed the way it filters mail coming from your server.

The SMTPSmartHost setting which is pointing at your own server is causing some sort of loop, & your mail server tries & retries to deliver the message, taking many days to do so.
To my understanding I do not see how your server could send any mail externally as there is a loop, it keeps using its own mail server to send mail to itself for delivery to other servers, rather than going out to the real world.
It's a puzzle to me what has happened & what you may have done to expedite this.
Perhaps you changed the setting inadvertantly, perhaps something changed in external DNS/MX records that allowed it to work previously, but once that was corrected it no longer works.

You have not provided us with enough information to answer your question accurately  & we are certainly not being paid to do extensive troubleshooting on your server.

Did you change the SMTPSmartHost setting to point at your ISPs SMTP server, & have you now checked that the mail messages are being sent OK ?

The setting you had appears to be totally incorrect to me, & I wonder how it worked at all.
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
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Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #28 on: April 26, 2015, 09:34:19 PM »
Im sorry for asking more question
but let me do what you say
i will try then if not ok i will tell you

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #29 on: April 26, 2015, 09:39:54 PM »
jonson/ahmedsa

Quote
The setting you had appears to be totally incorrect to me, & I wonder how it worked at all.

Oh I see here
http://mxtoolbox.com/SuperTool.aspx?action=mx%3aaltawi.com.sa&run=toolpage
you have two MX records configured, & altawi.com.sa points at an external mail server IP, so mail is forwarded to that server if mserver.altawi.com.sa does not respond or is not online or accessible, & any delay is caused by that mail server being busy, or doing filtering, or rejecting your messages (as it now appears to be doing).

Why do you have two MX records ?
With sme server you do not need any MX record as long as other DNS records exist.
Mail will be accepted by your sme server at altawi.com.sa
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
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Offline DanB35

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #30 on: April 26, 2015, 09:40:33 PM »
if my version is problem
How it work before that without any problem and more quickly
I didn't say that your version was the problem.  What I said (or at least suggested) was:
1.  There's a forum for SME 7.x, and this isn't it.  That forum is at http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/board,9.0.html.
2.  Even if you were using SME 8.x, this forum is for SME 8.x contribs (i.e., additional contributed software); your problem seems to be with the core system.
3.  SME 7.x was announced to be end of life over 2 years ago.  No further security updates or bug fixes have been released since that time.  You should upgrade to at least 8.x, and really to 9.0.  It's unlikely that this has anything to do with your immediate problems, but for the sake of your server's security you really should plan on making this change soon.
......

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #31 on: April 26, 2015, 09:50:17 PM »
jonson

You said at the very beginning of this thread
"Hi guys in sme server sometimes i cannot send email over outlook using sme server 8.x"

& now you admit to us you are using sme7.5.

Come on stop lying & tell us the truth.
Your old version could have something to do with your problems, so please tell us correct technical information & stop the lies.
Your name swapping also adds confusion to your story, so post as one user please.

Support for sme 7.x is finished, it's a waste of our time talking to you unless you are running a currently supported sme version ie 8.1 or 9.
There are many techncial reasons & issues to do with software versions & underlying code changes & improvemenst & features etc, & we take those things into consideration when answering questions.

Please update to SME 8.1 or 9 immediately, & correct or delete your MX records
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Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #32 on: April 27, 2015, 06:52:57 AM »
Thank you for reply
you are true i will upgrade to 8.1
i m sorry i dont know there are difference between 8 and 7
after reading there are more difference
OK i will upgrade my system to 8 first

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #33 on: April 27, 2015, 10:21:04 AM »
Thank you for reply
according to janet say
what i do now
remove mserver.altawi.com.sa
and keep altawi.com.sa in mx record
are this enough to send and recieve

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #34 on: April 27, 2015, 12:24:03 PM »
jonson


....and change your SMTPSmartHost setting to point at your ISPs smtp server, as previously advised.
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guest22

Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #35 on: April 27, 2015, 03:50:31 PM »
OK i will upgrade my system to 8 first
While you are at it, why not upgrade to SME 9.x 64-bit _after_ upgrading from 7 to 8 ?

Offline DanB35

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #36 on: April 27, 2015, 03:57:21 PM »
While you are at it, why not upgrade to SME 9.x 64-bit _after_ upgrading from 7 to 8 ?
Perhaps because you can't upgrade from 8 to 9 without doing a backup and restore?
......

Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #37 on: April 27, 2015, 04:26:03 PM »
Thank you
for reply after i upgrade to 8.0 what i write in these fields in sme 8.0 settings
please help me in answering these question and i will close this thread
can you give me expected true setting
i guess that
*Secondary mail server(smtp.awalnet.net.sa)
*Address of Internet provider's mail server(smtp.awalnet.net.sa)
*mx record what will be(smtp.awalnet.net.sa) point to dns 212.93.192.5(dns of sme server)
*change domain from altawi.com.sa to smtp.awalnet.net.sa
are this ok settings



Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #38 on: April 27, 2015, 07:05:21 PM »
Only answer the the question above
and i will close thread

Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #39 on: April 27, 2015, 11:20:24 PM »
jonson

Quote
.... i use sme server 7.5

It was recommended that BEFORE updating to sme 8.x, any sme 7.x server (eg 7.5) should be upgraded to sme7.6
So download the sme7.6 iso, burn the image to a CD, & then upgrade your existing server to v7.6 from the CD.
The various yum repositories have been closed or moved & it is tricky to do yum updates now to sme 7.x servers, so using CD is a much easier & quicker method.
There were important changes between v7.5 & v7.6 that better suit the upgrade to sme8.0 or 8.1.

Then you can download the sme8.1 iso, burn the image to CD/DVD, & upgrade the server to sme 8.1 from the CD.

All of that should work smoothly, but you may need to remove any custom templates & install newer version of any contribs you are using.
Please search before asking, an answer may already exist.
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Offline janet

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #40 on: April 27, 2015, 11:49:52 PM »
jonson

Have patience, no need to badger people for answers, we are asleep or at work in other parts of the world when you make your posts !

Firstly if you upgrade using CDs, then all your data & configuration settings will be retained. Please refer to my previous post re the most appropriate upgrade steps that I believe you should take ie via CD to sme7.6, then via CD to sme8.1.


Quote
i guess that
*Secondary mail server(smtp.awalnet.net.sa)

NO
I suggest you do not create a secondary MX record as it is not really needed, other mail servers will queue messages & try to resend them if your sme server is temporarily offline (even for many hours).

Quote
*Address of Internet provider's mail server(smtp.awalnet.net.sa)

YES
smtp.awalnet.net.sa
This is the SMTPSmartHost setting.


Quote
*mx record what will be(smtp.awalnet.net.sa) point to dns 212.93.192.5(dns of sme server)

Your main MX record can be
altawi.com.sa
or
mail.altawi.com.sa
(note the latter name is automatically created on sme server)
& should point to your sme servers IP of
78.93.244.61


Quote
*change domain from altawi.com.sa to smtp.awalnet.net.sa

If you are referring to your sme server main domain name, then
NO
Leave it as is,  or change it to
altawi.com.sa 

Also your servers local name can be
mserver
which it appears to be, so leave it as is, if that is correct.
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Offline jonson

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Re: Remote host said: 451 Upstream SMTP server not available/
« Reply #41 on: April 28, 2015, 06:18:26 AM »
OK thank you very much for reply