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SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office

Offline Daniel B.

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #30 on: April 04, 2013, 04:13:44 PM »
@Daniel, Stefano
Could you be more specific (for everyone's information), witch parts are doubled ?  Do you mean Pop3/IMAP ?
Zarafa uses the Qmail/qpsmtpd.

At least IMAP yes, not sure for the other parts
C'est la fin du monde !!! :lol:

Offline Stefano

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #31 on: April 04, 2013, 04:16:33 PM »
@Daniel, Stefano
Could you be more specific (for everyone's information), witch parts are doubled ?  Do you mean Pop3/IMAP ?
Zarafa uses the Qmail/qpsmtpd.

No, Frederick :-)

Zarafa uses its own services.. take a look at smeserver-zarafa contrib to know how mail routing works..
for example, if you want to use Zarafa via imap in SME, you must use port 8143, not the standard 143..

I suggest you to dig inside the contrib.. as I said (not enough, it seems) SME is not Centos and integration with Zarafa is a bit tricky and not trivial..
the first developer of smeserver-zarafa Steven Noble (IIRC), has stopped the development of it, moving to SOGo

HTH

Offline Stefano

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #32 on: April 04, 2013, 04:17:52 PM »
At least IMAP yes, not sure for the other parts

Not sure at all..

I have no more Zarafa to check.. will ask to a work mate and report here

Offline frifri

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #33 on: April 04, 2013, 04:24:24 PM »
Quote
Zarafa uses its own services.. take a look at smeserver-zarafa contrib to know how mail routing works..
for example, if you want to use Zarafa via imap in SME, you must use port 8143, not the standard 143..
Well, that is because of dovecot that is doubled.
You could use IMAP with ZARAFA over 143, after disabling dovecot. (same for Pop3)

Offline Stefano

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #34 on: April 04, 2013, 04:32:55 PM »
so, in your opinion is a good thing for me/us to disable native dovecot service running on 143 to use another dovecot instance? :)

does it sound absurd to me only?

in any case, this topic is going far too OT..
this kind of discussion should be done in dev's ML
as it has been already told, Zarafa is not and hardly will be a candidate to be the default email/groupware package on future SME releases.. this does not mean anybody could work to a better integration

Tomorrow I will post an output coming from SME7.6 with Zarafa 6.X and ine from SME8 and Zarafa 7 about services..

Offline frifri

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #35 on: April 04, 2013, 04:44:53 PM »
Quote
Tomorrow I will post an output coming from SME7.6 with Zarafa 6.X and ine from SME8 and Zarafa 7 about services..
Thank you !

Quote
so, in your opinion is a good thing for me/us to disable native dovecot service running on 143 to use another dovecot instance?
Obviously, i misunderstood the 'doubled'-story  :???:

guest22

Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #36 on: April 04, 2013, 06:20:48 PM »
@frifri, a one script install of your wiki zarafa on sme8 talk page:
https://gist.github.com/anonymous/3f088b3852011c2a1d8f

Offline frifri

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #37 on: April 04, 2013, 06:53:23 PM »
@RequestedDeletion

WOW !  :shock:

We should make a 'version-question' in the script because now it installs default x86_64, 7.0.13 and the latest php53-mapi.rpm (not sure it will always be php53-mapi-7.0.13).

And we have to deal with upgrades from lower versions.

With some variations we could install with this script zcp-7.1 on SME9 too (we don't need the php53-mapi.rpm in that case, and replacing the indexer-package with the search-package).

guest22

Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #38 on: April 04, 2013, 07:21:27 PM »
Well, Charles2008, have fun!! :-)

Offline Stefano

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #39 on: April 04, 2013, 07:31:55 PM »
here I am

Code: [Select]
Sme 7.6.0 zarafa 6.40.13-30778

ps aux | grep zarafa

root      4254  0.0  0.0  4628  620 pts/0    S+   18:55   0:00 grep zarafa
root      6997  0.0  0.0 13480 1188 ?        S    Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      6998  0.0  0.0 23732 1260 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      7017  0.0  0.0 11132 1156 ?        S    Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      7018  0.0  0.0 21380 1204 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      7037  0.0  0.1 53064 3032 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:04 /usr/bin/zarafa-licensed -c /etc/zarafa/licensed.cfg
root      7066  0.3  1.2 207936 25928 ?      Sl   Apr03   7:32 /usr/bin/zarafa-server -c /etc/zarafa/server.cfg
root      7091  0.0  0.1 35476 2348 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:01 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg
root      7092  0.0  0.0 24980  824 ?        Sl   Apr03   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg

netstat -napt | grep zarafa

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8993                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8995                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:236                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7066/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:237                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7066/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8110                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8143                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      6997/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8088                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7017/zarafa-ical
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8089                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      7017/zarafa-ical

Code: [Select]
Sme 8.0 con zarafa 7.0.6-32752

ps aux | grep zarafa

root      2681  0.0  0.0    140    52 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 tcpsvd -v -i ./peers -c 40 -C 4:421 per host concurrency limit reached\r\n -l 0 0 pop3 /var/qmail/bin/qmail-popup zarafa.simi.local checkpassword-pam -s pop3 /var/qmail/bin/qmail-pop3d Maildir
root      2700  0.0  0.0    140    52 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 tcpsvd -v -i ./peers -c 40 -C 4:421 per host concurrency limit reached\r\n -l 0 0 pop3s sslio -vv -/ /service/imap/ssl -u stunnel -C imapd.pem /var/qmail/bin/qmail-popup zarafa.simi.local checkpassword-pam -s pop3 /var/qmail/bin/qmail-pop3d Maildir
root      3319  0.0  0.0  28288  1540 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      3320  0.0  0.0  38536  1584 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-gateway -c /etc/zarafa/gateway.cfg
root      3344  0.0  0.0  26500  1848 ?        S    Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      3345  0.0  0.0  36748  1836 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-ical -c /etc/zarafa/ical.cfg
root      3390  0.0  0.1  58380  5156 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:25 /usr/bin/zarafa-licensed -c /etc/zarafa/licensed.cfg
root      3427  0.3  2.0 305868 83472 ?        Sl   Mar23  59:26 /usr/bin/zarafa-server -c /etc/zarafa/server.cfg
root      3458  0.0  0.1  42608  4192 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:09 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg
root      3459  0.0  0.0  40164  1564 ?        Sl   Mar23   0:00 /usr/bin/zarafa-spooler -c /etc/zarafa/spooler.cfg
root      9157  0.0  0.0   4264   700 pts/0    S+   19:07   0:00 grep zarafa

netstat -napt | grep zarafa

tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8993                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8995                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:236                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3427/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:237                 0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3427/zarafa-server
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8110                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8143                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3319/zarafa-gateway
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8088                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3344/zarafa-ical
tcp        0      0 0.0.0.0:8089                0.0.0.0:*                   LISTEN      3344/zarafa-ical


Offline frifri

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #40 on: April 04, 2013, 07:47:27 PM »
@Stefano

Thanks. Were are the 'doubles' with the native sme-services ?

Isn't it because the zarafa-contrib-devs wanted to enable zarafa on a per-user base, that they choose to take other ports for the zarafa-imap and zarafa-pop3-services ?

Offline Charles2008

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #41 on: April 13, 2013, 03:58:51 PM »
Please excuse my absence. I had thought that this thread had 'gone quiet' and was off concentrating on year-end -  I got that wrong, eh?

Well, this is a fascinating discussion, and thank you Frederick (and HFW - hello BTW  :) ) for your thoughts on Zarafa.

Although Stefano says this discussion should be for the dev forum (and I have seen others make this sort of observation on other similar threads, so he is not alone) it is extremely enlightening (and encouraging) for newcomers to see just how many knowledgeable and talented users there are involved with SME and also how carefully and seriously they take decisions regarding, what to others might seem like, small issues.

I am a little surprised to see no EGW representation. Perhaps it is something to do with what Stefano said earlier ... that if you need what EGW offers, then you need EGW (or words to that effect) and if not it's SOGo (Zarafa or other).

I am attracted to EGW as it is like a Swiss Army Knife - lots of different apps, all designed to work together & all conveniently in one place (however it seems to me a little untidy). I like the fact that SOGo is simple (and reported to be quick) and looks neat, as I'm not the only user and I will need to sell this to colleagues currently using GMail.

Regarding resource usage - this is a concern, as I think that I will start off hosting a website on this server also (not the main site - one I want to do more experiments with - still 'live' though). I would like to keep things as light as possible.

On eGroupware:

1) (From an email from EGW user, with authors permission)  -
  • "In an EGW email account you can set multiple emails and the user only needs to know his account credentials (multiple email identities in one login) - all of this is administered from the admin account - this is, for me, the most important feature of EGW  (in SOGo I was able to do it, but only after I entered into the individual user account - not from admin interface).
  • Also, for example, consider - I as admin / technical man decide to receive my email from my email account (IMAP), AND also Support and Webmaster emails ( both of them  IMAP). In a situation where I'm not the only Support or Webmaster, in EGW I can send these emails to my colleagues too.
  • In EGW, because email is IMAP, you can solve one mail and move to "solved" - for all the team. This is the same for Sales / RMA / Delivery / Support  teams.
  • For example - I  have one installation of EGW for some friends who use one 'Group' email which is supervised by almost 30 people - and on this unique incoming gateway they receive over 500 mails daily (some days over 1000). Imagine the old approach with 'group email' which made a copy to each member ... - to sync and delete emails solved by colleagues !
  • I like being able to use the group email from web interface.
  • In EGW the email path is more natural IMHO:   client > group email > reply from group to client > reply from client to group ....
  • In EGW, the main idea is that the users will need to know only their own account - the users in the group can share folders and documents between themselves without any intervention from admin (no new iBays, no other FTP...)"
2) a forum quote of soprom "If I didn't need the "infolog" and "wiki" implemented in eGroupware, my first choice would be SOGo."   ...   which perhaps corresponds to Stefano's earlier comments on EGW.
http://forums.contribs.org/index.php/topic,49002.msg246429.html#msg246429

Once again, thank you to Stefano, Frederick, RequestedDeletion, mmccarn, Daniel et al for a very interesting discussion.
Charles
[/color]
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 06:54:27 PM by Charles2008 »

Offline soprom

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #42 on: April 13, 2013, 07:15:59 PM »
Thanks for this very interesting conversation about groupware software on SMEserver. It's good to have such a round-up from time to time.

I would add to the conversation that in my cases (10 users), Outlook has been the most difficult part to deal with. Zarafa becomes very expensive for small community centers. This is why we use EGW+Funambol to sync Outlook.

I understand the interest for using opensource clients but most of my users are with Outlook. As many of you, I now have to sync iphone, ipad, mac, outlook, android. And Outlook is always a problem I can't remove.

It also appears to me that the notion of groupware is getting narrower. Zarafa, Owncloud, SOGo all concentrate on mail/cal/card where an older groupware like EGW does a lot more than that. For example, if I switched to SOGo, where would I transfer years of infologs, wiki pages and timesheets?

But, as I said, the game now is to sync. If SOGo can do it, I will go that way and find another CRM.
« Last Edit: April 13, 2013, 07:17:53 PM by soprom »
Sophie from Montréal

Offline frifri

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #43 on: April 14, 2013, 12:10:19 PM »
Hi Sophie,

Mobile-devices :
 SOGO doesn't sync.  You need Funambol too :
 http://wiki.contribs.org/Funambol
 http://www.sogo.nu/files/docs/SOGo%20Mobile%20Devices%20Configuration.pdf
The Zarafa(Z-push)-Mobile-Compatibility-List :
 http://www.zarafa.com/wiki/index.php/Z-Push_Mobile_Compatibility_List

OSS-clients :
 Thunderbird (+Lightning) plays with zarafa too :
 http://wiki.contribs.org/Zarafa
 http://www.zarafa.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_clients#Other

Outlook :
 As you know, Sogo doesn't play well with Outlook, even if you have Samba4 :
 http://www.sogo.nu/files/docs/SOGo%20Native%20Microsoft%20Outlook%20Configuration.pdf  (see page 16)
 As you know, Zarafa plays very well with Outlook, but this (and only this) connection costs money :
 http://www.zarafa.com/zarafa-calculator/en

As i see it, you have all the features with Zarafa (+Owncloud/Dropbox-integration), only Outlook-connections costs money.  Even with Samba4, you don't have a full-Outlook-connection on Sogo.
F.
« Last Edit: April 14, 2013, 01:20:57 PM by frifri »

Offline mrjhb3

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Re: SoGo / eGroupware / Group-Office
« Reply #44 on: April 27, 2013, 05:18:18 AM »
Hello all, long time no post by me. 

Very interesting thread indeed.  Have a look at bug 6653 - Upgrade to horde 4, it should really say horde 5, now.  Greg has done some pretty good work in trying to get all of the necessary components, but there is still much more work that needs to be done if we really want to move to horde 5, and 5.1 is looming. 

In my contribs directory, http://mirror.contribs.org/contribs/jbennett/, there is, or will be soon, an updated file called horde5.zip, with a date of 4-26-2013, that will install horde5 via the pear method.  Don't use this file if it's on a mirror that is dated earlier than 4-26-2013, or if you look at the script, and it says, "This script will install horde5 on SME Server 8, it should say 9.  To get the updated file, use

Code: [Select]
wget http://mirror.contribs.org/contribs/jbennett/horde5.zip from your server to retrieve it.  It's a litte over 28MB.  Then
Code: [Select]
unzip horde5.zip 

cd horde5
Again, have a look at the Install_horde5.sh file in the horde5 directory, to verify you have the most up to date files.  You will need to run this from the server console using,
Code: [Select]
sh Install_horde5.sh
The reason for running it from the server console is because the script shuts down the eth0 interface so that when you run the install, it doesn't try to download the already downloaded files.  If anyone knows a way to have pear not try to use the Internet, I'm up for that.  Those running in server-gateway mode, may need to shut down a different interface.  The Internet facing interface is what needs to be shut, then no shut, so you may need to change the eth0 lines to eth1.  After the initial horde files are installed, the Internet facing interface is brought back up, and a pear upgrade is run to ensure the most up to date horde files are installed. 

This will install and upgrade to the latest horde, imp, ingo, turba, kronolith, mnemo, nag, gollem, trean.  I've been testing this for quite some time.  The UI a vastly different, and there are some really good additions, and some things that I miss.  I have not tried phone syncing.  Upgrades seem to work for me, except for trean, which is the bookmarks application.  If using trean, you'll have to upgrade your bookmarks manually. 

If you are really interested in testing this, then I would also encourage you to join the various horde mailing lists, and have a look at their archives, for any issues you are having.  There are quite a few changes from horde 3 to 5, and I'll help where I can.  Lastly, this install, installs what I felt would be the defaults for my system, and how I would want to use it.  The only thing that I see is some log noise every five minutes, which is when the Calendar alarms cron job is run.  There has been some discussion on the horde list, but no fix that I found.  Here is what you will see:
Code: [Select]
www HORDE: [imp] Authentication failed. [pid 2798 on line 387 of "/home/httpd/html/horde/imp/lib/Imap.php"]
If horde5 is the way to go, then much work needs to be done in getting all of the various pear files converted to rpm files that can be easily installed and maintained.  I tried working with this several months back, but didn't have success, so I'd need some help and guidance with the process.

We can continue this discussion in this thread, but I'd prefer someone stated a new forum thread with horde 5 as the subject.  If enough interest, then we can move to the devinfo mailing list to get some assistance on getting the rpm's created, then to the bug tracker to track the progress.

Good luck if you try this, and let me know what you think.

Thanks,

John
 
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