Koozali.org formerly Contribs.org

Manage domains

Manage domains
« on: October 19, 2007, 07:10:48 PM »
Manage domains

I have recently found SME Server and have found its feature set very appealing.  However the one thing that I have found most frustrating is the lack of usability in the Domain Manager.  What I expected and what I found seems strange to me given the functionality of the rest of the SME feature sets. :?

Almost everyone suggests to install websites in the /opt directory but when I go to the domain manager there is no option to choose the [example “opt/mywebsitefolder”] folder as the domains folder location and have it do for the /opt folders what it does for the primary and ibay folders, ie resolve the domain to that folder.

Because this functionality is missing there seems to be many people asking the same question over and over again about how to have a domain name resolve to the /opt/mysitefolder directory.

Question.  Is there a particular reason why this functionality was never included and is there anyone working towards including this functionality in the domain manager.

Also I would like to make a suggestion that the domain controller be used to either accept an existing /opt installation or to create it with a tick the boxes approach to the feature set similar to ispconfig.

Currently almost everything concerning the web hosting side of sme is done by command line.

What I would love to see is a hybrid of both sme and ispconfig. Sme for all the business management, email and firewall etc needs and an ispconfig style approach to the domain management.
Mmmmmmm Now wouldn’t that just make for the most perfect server.

I must confess that my main box is currently a debian etch ispconfig server running about 12 sites.  Its been very reliable. However given all the extra features of sme and its easy to use interface I am looking to change my server over to sme as its easier to go this way than to try and install all these features and functionality onto my debian box.

And I hope ultimately easier to maintain

To everyone developing sme I give you many thanks for what is already a great product.

Thanks :-P
Steve

guest22

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2007, 08:55:03 PM »
Simply use I-bays for serving multiple (virtual) domains, right?

guest

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2007, 11:18:27 PM »
Simply use I-bays for serving multiple (virtual) domains, right?

guest

If that was an acceptable answer them we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?

Thanks
Steve

Offline mmccarn

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Re: Manage domains
« Reply #3 on: October 20, 2007, 11:58:49 PM »
Are you using http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Site_Maker?  I've never used it so I don't know if it allows you to create virtual domains re-directs easily.

If you are, and you want to be able to use virtual domains, you could raise a 'new feature request' against this contrib in bugzilla.

If you aren't you should raise a 'new feature request' against the base SME in bugzilla.


Re: Manage domains
« Reply #4 on: October 22, 2007, 05:25:52 AM »
I have had a quick go at it but have not fully tested it yes. Time constraints.

It would be better if it had a proper management interface, so I hope that somebody will make one for it.  I found that I didn't know what to put in some of the entry positions.  Basically I need to do some more testing and get a site up and running from the use of this tool.

would be best if this tool was properly integrated into the domain manager with a tick the boxes setup guide.

Thanks
Steve

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #5 on: October 22, 2007, 10:28:10 PM »
If that was an acceptable answer them we wouldn't be having this conversation, right?

Thanks
Steve

Not quite, Steve. HF is right.

It really helps if you look at the manual and understand SME design before you question it.  I have been humbled many times with "read the manual" and finally understood that the SME design usually included what I was looking for; I just didn't always know where to find it.

Please read:

http://wiki.contribs.org/SME_Server:Documentation:Administration_Manual:Chapter14


I-bays are the heart of handling 'information' in SME hence the name i-bay ('information-bay').  If I understand your posting properly, you are looking for where you reposit your site and manage it's properties, not a place to develop your site.  The ibay is the place.  If you host virtual domains, set the ibay up first, copy your site to it, add the domain in domain manager and you should be able to URL right to it (providing the DNS points to your server).  It is really quite simple once you understand the structure.  I have been using it for years flawlessly.

By the way,  the ibays are kept under:  /home/e-smith/files/ibays... if you need to know that.

You're welcome,
Uniqsys  :smile:
...

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #6 on: October 23, 2007, 01:24:35 AM »
Question.  Is there a particular reason why this functionality was never included ...

That functionality was never included because there's no reason for it, unless you consider /opt to be something magical. As others have said, i-bays are provided for you to add web content to, and the domains panel allows you to connect particular i-bays to particular domains. This seems to be what you wish to do.

You assert that this proposed solution is not acceptable to you, but you give no reason for rejecting the proposed solution.

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #7 on: October 23, 2007, 05:05:56 AM »
OK but why then do most people suggest that for both security and functionality reasons its better to use the /opt folder to setup and run websites etc.

I want to run numerous cms systems like joomla etc and why then does the rmp install for joomla and all the other cms etc  rmp's install to the /opt folder.

If all the rpm's are installing to the /opt folder then its not unreasonable for me to suggest that the domain manager is lacking functionality because it has no options that relate to the /opt folder.

Its also not possible to setup and manage the creation or deleting of mysql databases from the domain manager.  Having used ispconfig for some time now there are certain things pertaining directly to domain management that are lacking in the sme system.  I can see and understand that the business managment areas have been very well developed and I love them (its why I'm using sme) but I can also see that this has been at the expense of the domain managment side which still is lacking in its functionality.

I have no doubt that over time this will change.  At the moment all these functions are possible but its through the use of command line, sim links, phpmysql manager, etc etc that many people comming to linux and sme for the first time will have lots of issues adjusting to this way of doing things, especialy when everything else in sme is done via a nice managment consol.  These are tools that should only be resorted to when a person has a problem and should not be first line options.

anyway Im just putting it out there becouse thats what I experiance and its reflected in the number of threads on the forum pertaining to domain managment and the /opt folder.

Thanks
Steve
 
:)

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #8 on: October 23, 2007, 07:00:59 AM »
I would like to put my support forward for steve1084. If as this topic suggests that I-Bays are the best places for web content, then why have the SME Sitemaker, isn't this going against the convention that is being touted here?

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #9 on: October 23, 2007, 08:07:53 AM »
Hi Girkers

Thanks for the support

I simply want to highlight something of my personal experience back to the development team so that they can see that regardless of the systems they have put in place many people are having difficulties because of the way SME is being used even if that way was not intended and that the current Domain Manager is not able to deal with the ways that people are using SME and the /opt folder.

It would be nice if something could be done to address these issues or at least to acknowledge them and have a second look at the way domain management is being handled.  especially now that most websites used by people are CMS systems using either php, mysql, java, asp, and ruby. and that many people want the business side of SME but also want greater control over there websites, and acknowledge that they are being installed and used from the /opt folder and to address this within the Domain Manager.

Simply stating that everyone should use the I-bay folders doesn't address the issues people are havening.

Thanks
Steve

:)

Offline raem

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Re: Manage domains
« Reply #10 on: October 23, 2007, 10:47:38 PM »
steve1084

You can put a redirect link in the ibay, search as there have been examples
posted.
Have you tried Sitemaker to see if it will allow you to do what you want ?

The best place for a New Feature Request (NFR) is in the bugtracker.
Bugzilla is used for many more things than just tracking code bugs.
Create a NFR bug & summarise & put in a link to this thread.
Search first also, to see if has already been requested in bugzilla.

....and also add a link here to the bug report.
...

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #11 on: October 24, 2007, 07:20:13 AM »
Hi ray

Yes you are correct and I have had a brief look at a number of solutions,  I haven't fully explored site maker as yet.  My feeling is that these are all work arounds for something that should really be done from the domain manager.

But as you suggest I will put a comment into the bug tracker and see what eventuates. maybe I'm not the only one who sees that a bit more work needs to be done on the domain management side of things.  Not because there is anything wrong with the current manager but because of the way people are using SME which was not fully anticipated.

Thanks
Steve
:)

Offline william_syd

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Re: Manage domains
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2007, 01:35:28 PM »
Did someone post some httpd.conf fragment to work around this ?

I did raise a NFR bug sometime ago though I lack the skills to take it further.  http://bugs.contribs.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2460

I did find something in the wiki that looks useful.  http://wiki.contribs.org/Web_Application_RPM#Webserver_templates
Regards,
William

IF I give advise.. It's only if it was me....

Re: Manage domains
« Reply #13 on: February 25, 2008, 10:24:30 PM »
OK but why then do most people suggest that for both security and functionality reasons its better to use the /opt folder to setup and run websites etc.

I want to run numerous cms systems like joomla etc and why then does the rmp install for joomla and all the other cms etc  rmp's install to the /opt folder.

If all the rpm's are installing to the /opt folder then its not unreasonable for me to suggest that the domain manager is lacking functionality because it has no options that relate to the /opt folder.

At the moment all these functions are possible but its through the use of command line, sim links, phpmysql manager, etc etc that many people coming to linux and sme for the first time will have lots of issues adjusting to this way of doing things, especialy when everything else in sme is done via a nice managment consol.  These are tools that should only be resorted to when a person has a problem and should not be first line options.

anyway Im just putting it out there because thats what I experience and its reflected in the number of threads on the forum pertaining to domain management and the /opt folder.

Thanks
Steve
 
:)


That functionality was never included because there's no reason for it, unless you consider /opt to be something magical. As others have said, i-bays are provided for you to add web content to, and the domains panel allows you to connect particular i-bays to particular domains. This seems to be what you wish to do.

You assert that this proposed solution is not acceptable to you, but you give no reason for rejecting the proposed solution.

It must be something magical because no one has explained it's purpose, concept, rational sufficiently so all will understand completely!

Is it as simple as contrib developers will plop the contrib into /opt and you config, test, setup there and when complete just move it to an ibay of your choice.

Is it that simple a concept or is there more to be considered as others including myself have stated.

Certainly it was not address in this thread to my satisfaction in this thread.

I do think this issue needs to be resolved and made a stickie and posted on the main page of the wiki if it ever gets resolved.

If I did miss the resolution somewhere please point it out and I apologize in advance to all concerned.

Offline raem

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Re: Manage domains
« Reply #14 on: February 25, 2008, 11:11:13 PM »
electroman00

Nice rant, but not terribly useful.
Better that you create a NFR bug (new feature request), and add your rational justification for the feature.

Quote
If I did miss the resolution somewhere please point it out and I apologize in advance to all concerned.

In the post immediately before yours.
http://wiki.contribs.org/Web_Application_RPM#Webserver_templates

...although it's not the server manager panel answer you want.
...