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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux

Quail_Linux

[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« on: April 08, 2005, 09:30:51 AM »
I guess we should all pack up and go home now because it's now official. ;-)

<snip>
"In the **absence of a clear definition of reliability or benchmarks**, Microsoft commissioned a study that pitted Windows Server 2003 against Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3.0 AS. As part of the study, 18 Linux and 18 Windows system administrators were hired to run the simulated IT environments of a mid-sized company over a four-day period."
<snap>

http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;518232080;fp;4;fpid;1968336438

hehe like micro$oft has got a chance of me changing my SME server platform to their winblows server. :hammer:

Offline Tib

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2005, 02:13:22 PM »
Well in the survey it was only slightly better ... even so look at the cost factor and I'm sure ppl will still go towards a linux server depending on ther requirements.

I'ts true ... for some things you can only go with Windows servers as it's just too hard to setup linux to do some things at this point in time ... give it a few more years and that will change I'm sure.

Tib

Offline CharlieBrady

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Re: [Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than L
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2005, 04:06:21 PM »
Quote from: "Quail_Linux"
I guess we should all pack up and go home now because it's now official. ;-)


"official"?

Quote

<snip>
"In the **absence of a clear definition of reliability or benchmarks**, Microsoft commissioned a study that pitted Windows Server 2003 against Red Hat Enterprise Linux 3.0 AS. As part of the study, 18 Linux and 18 Windows system administrators were hired to run the simulated IT environments of a mid-sized company over a four-day period."
<snap>


Before you get too excited, read this rebuttal (by anon) posted on Groklaw:

Quote


"A random group of "intermediate level" systems administrators, dropped into unfamiliar problem-riddled systems and presented with that specific set of artificial failures, will on average perform their tasks slightly faster under Windows."

That might be what the study shows, except as you point out that the variation amongst individuals was greater than the variation between Windows and Linux, so the "finding" is in fact statistically insignificant compared to the experimental error.

However, more to the point, that is *NOT* what the PR tries to say the study concludes. The PR spin is that Windows is more *reliable* than linux, that it has better *availability*.

The study in fact looked at neither. The study is a flawed look at *maintainability*.

Maintainability has nothing to do with reliability.

Availability is a measure of the reliability in relation to the maintainability.

So any study that looks at maintainability only has exactly nothing whatsoever to do with reliability or availability - despite what the PR spin tries to claim.



And, of course, they didn't look at SME server as their linux platform :-)

Quail_Linux

Re: [Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than L
« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2005, 03:00:33 AM »
Quote

Before you get too excited, read this rebuttal (by anon) posted on Groklaw:


Hi Charlie,

hehe i not excited at the findings, i find it quite funny to the extent micro$oft is going too, to try and get better PR for themselves.

And like i said before:
Quote

hehe like micro$oft has got a chance of me changing my SME server platform to their winblows server.  :hammer:

Offline gippsweb

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #4 on: April 10, 2005, 03:32:56 AM »
Why only run the test for 4 days?
I get sick of seeing windows network services grinding to a halt after 30-35 days up. Don't see that on Linux, SME 50 odd days still going strong......

Skydiver

SME
« Reply #5 on: April 10, 2005, 04:01:09 AM »
I know a couple of SME box's that have not been restarted in over a year. i admit they are only file servers and not on the net but they are still running strong and without issue for the services they provide the client.

 :hammer:  Windows is not for me

Offline smeghead

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #6 on: April 10, 2005, 07:16:42 AM »
.. I once visited a client who were having network problem & found that their Novell file server was inaccessable.  When I asked where it was they said they didn't have a server of any sort.  It took half an hour to find it buried at the back of a cupboard!

Turned out the employee who set it up & maintained it had left 3 years ago & the current staff knew nothing about it.

When I checked the monitor on the server it had been running for 1000+ days, damn!

My greatest claim to fame is an NT server that has only been rebooted 3 times by me in 4 years when I have done some software upgrades, otherwise its never missed a beat; no issues in the event logs, not a yellow or red flag to be seen.

Damn I'm good :-) ;-) 8-)
..................

Offline kruhm

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #7 on: April 12, 2005, 02:21:36 PM »
**I'm not promoting Windows, just stating advantages not easily attainable otherwise**

-Windows still has the advantage that it can replicate with other servers.
-Windows still has the advantage that it can place group policies on clients.

These two factors, especially the desktop lockdown, is what will keep mid-to-large companies hooked to Windows Server. Very large companies go to Netware.

Offline smeghead

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #8 on: April 12, 2005, 04:40:13 PM »
hmm, MS, a very large company, wondering if it uses Novell :-)
..................

Quail_Linux

[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #9 on: April 12, 2005, 04:49:19 PM »
Quote from: "smeghead"
hmm, MS, a very large company, wondering if it uses Novell :-)


Well i have scanned M$ servers and they mostly just run the IIS server. ((which in my eyes is not a proper server) half a**ed sort of approach of a server))

But I have heard on the other hand that some of the coding for XPee is a mixture of NT, WIN, and LINUX. What truth is behind the story who knows.

ryan

[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #10 on: April 12, 2005, 08:19:51 PM »
Get Novell, IBM, Dell, and HP to agree with this article and I will quit linux for 100% microsoft!!!!

ryan

mach1_4fun

which one is right for you?
« Reply #11 on: April 13, 2005, 12:47:00 AM »
I thought it was pretty fishy how they gave out very few details about the exact tests.
I will admit that Linux has some major pitfalls, but so does M$

I don't want to start a flame war or anything, just sharing my observations as both a Windows and Linux Admin.

Here is my humble opinion: (and food for thought)
M$ pitfalls:
-expense (Have you seen those license costs? ouch!). Then commercial products are almost the only add-in to many M$ servers (Backup, Anti-virus, Anti-spam, etc). (Last I checked, an email server like the one I manage using contribs.org would be over $40,000 in M$ and other proprietary software!)
 
-security (as related to virus/spyware propogation, but linux has security exploits too.) I think that I can assert that linux is more secure out of the box.

-Ethical issues, with many recent anti-trust and "tying" law suits (in the US, EU,etc.), many are wary of the ethics of the company, and its licensing policies that are now on the per user NOT per machine basis. (Example 300 machines, 3,000 users, you need to buy 3,000 M$ office licenses! big ouch!)

Linux pitfalls:
-Project competition, occasional infighting, and lack of standardization. In some cases there are half a dozen projects that do the same thing, would it not be more productive to concentrate resources and make one project more feature-rich?
I find it humurous when someone asks a question about fixing a specific problem with a program, and the first reply reads "Dude/Dudette, switch to program X instead, its way better". I am sure program X is wonderful, But I am dead in the water until I can fix program Y let alone learn how to use program X.

-Sometimes poor documentation/support- Linux has a pretty steep learning curve, I have found that some projects are downright hostile. This is not a good combination. SME certainly doesn't fall under this category  :-D

Wilheim

Working on this, dude
« Reply #12 on: April 13, 2005, 02:28:59 PM »
I recently got Xandros OC edition to authenticate against an SME server using NIS and NFS, the *nix equivalent of domain logons with roaming profiles... so this point is moot... group policies (or group access) is part of SME...

Quote from: "kruhm"
**I'm not promoting Windows, just stating advantages not easily attainable otherwise**

-Windows still has the advantage that it can replicate with other servers.
-Windows still has the advantage that it can place group policies on clients.

These two factors, especially the desktop lockdown, is what will keep mid-to-large companies hooked to Windows Server. Very large companies go to Netware.


But, some people will just throw money at the problem...

Offline kruhm

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #13 on: April 25, 2005, 04:20:31 AM »
Quote
so this point is moot... group policies (or group access) is part of SME...


group policies is NOT part of SME, more specifically samba (not even in the latest release). That's why there's third-party software that supports it http://searchwin2000.techtarget.com/originalContent/0,289142,sid1_gci1005581,00.html and http://www.nitrobit.com/GroupPolicy.html

even the samba.org consents to this : "Samba-3.0.0 does not yet implement all account controls that are common to MS Windows NT4/200x/XP."
http://us2.samba.org/samba/docs/man/Samba-HOWTO-Collection/PolicyMgmt.html#id2600128

until this happens, most companies/admins won't consider it. try telling an admin that runs a few hundred pc's that they can't lock down the pc and see what happens. unless you want to go around uninstalling software, remapping drives, reinstalling printers, removing printers, basically continuously cleaning up after users, it's not an option.

Offline calisun

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[Off Topic]: its official, windows is more stable than Linux
« Reply #14 on: April 25, 2005, 06:41:15 AM »
smeghead wrote:
Quote

hmm, MS, a very large company, wondering if it uses Novell



Several years ago, still in the dark ages of NT 3 or 4, Micro$oft got red face by getting cought for using BSD server for their hotmail site.
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