Topic: Why I gave up coding in PHP a long time ago and would prefer to remove it

[CharlieBrady]

It's impossible to write reliable and secure code in PHP. Witness:

http://lwn.net/Articles/618495/

http://eev.ee/blog/2012/04/09/php-a-fractal-of-bad-design/

[Xavier.A]

May be you are right :

For thinking :

• http://w3techs.com/technologies/overview/programming_language/all
• http://trends.builtwith.com/framework
• http://www.developereconomics.com/reports/developer-economics-q3-2014/#sample-graphs
• http://jobprod.com/salaires-developpeurs-2014

in reference of this subject, starting at : http://lists.contribs.org/pipermail/discussion/2014-September/001194.html

• http://w3techs.com/technologies/details/os-linux/all/all
• http://trends.builtwith.com/server

[Stefano]

Xavier.a, would you mind to elaborate a bit more your thought?

the facts that php is widely used but poorly designed and unsecure are not in conflict (VB anyone?)
so, again, what's the point?

thank you

[Xavier.A]

(short answer because of eclipse luna bug "SLF4J" to resolve)

/!\ don't shoot at me, no flame, no rude things here /!\

My thought is just a constatation, we are living in a real world and we have to adapt our desire to the reality of the IT business. Today we are using Python to teach algorithmic lessons but I would like to use C++ or Java.

Other example, I'm using XML and XSLT in scenari project with java tranformers to generate HTML file because it' s the best way to structure data (no movies but WYSIWYM tool : http://scenari-platform.org/projects/scenari/fr/pres/co/) I would like to use XML in SME Server in place of the plain text DB, but I will never propose this idea to the board members, some want already to send me in psychiatric hospital  (oups sorry )

If we study a little bit those pages :

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_content_management_systems
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks

we could think that PHP is the winner but the market is evolving to XML, HTML5, para-virtualization, Android SDK (future best linux embedded distri in place of OpenEmbedded/ Buildroot/Scratchbox ?) and more Java for enterprise web application (CMS, LMS, ERP/CRM/XRM, GED,...etc).

In fact i'm agree with CharlieBrady and Koozali Dev should not use PHP for SME Server manager, but they certainly will do it because of lack of HR in Koozali team.

That was just my 2 cents

Regards

P.S.: The idea of RequestedDeletion to create a developer forum here is really good idea, it would help the Koozali board to find new volunteer. The best place to be for the moment is here : http://www.developpez.net/forums/.

[Stefano]

/!\ don't shoot at me, no flame, no rude things here /!\

it depends on your attidude/approach in your answer
let's see

My thought is just a constatation, we are living in a real world and we have to adapt our desire to the reality of the IT business. Today we are using Python to teach algorithmic lessons but I would like to use C++ or Java.

Other example, I'm using XML and XSLT in scenari project with java tranformers to generate HTML file because it' s the best way to structure data (no movies but WYSIWYM tool : http://scenari-platform.org/projects/scenari/fr/pres/co/)

ok

I would like to use XML in SME Server in place of the plain text DB,

you are welcome.. bugzilla is there; you are free to post your suggestions/ideas, your code.. all with the necessary reasons to adopt a new solution..

but I will never propose this idea to the board members, some want already to send me in psychiatric hospital  (oups sorry )

unneeded comment.. you've been told (too) many times: stop to approach in this way.

If we study a little bit those pages :

• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_content_management_systems
• https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_web_application_frameworks

we could think that PHP is the winner but the market is evolving to XML, HTML5, para-virtualization, Android SDK (future best linux embedded distri in place of OpenEmbedded/ Buildroot/Scratchbox ?) and more Java for enterprise web application (CMS, LMS, ERP/CRM/XRM, GED,...etc).

ok

In fact i'm agree with CharlieBrady and Koozali Dev should not use PHP for SME Server manager,

ok

but they certainly will do it because of lack of HR in Koozali team.

aha.. interesting.. so you are aware of something that has already been decided.. can you please tell us (not only to ME, but to all the reading people) why are you so sure and where did you read/hear such a thing?
there's nothing true in your guessing

That was just my 2 cents

Regards

I'd say that's more than 10 cents, if you know what I mean..

[Xavier.A]

Well you are focusing on everything except technical things   

it depends on your attidude/approach in your answer
let's see

Let' see...if you could reply more technically.

I don't really know your skill level but I would like to know your feedback of developper about this article:

May be you can't read this page http://www.developpez.com/actu/76979/Quel-est-l-effet-du-langage-de-programmation-sur-la-qualite-du-logiciel-Une-etude-tente-de-clarifier-la-situation/
but you could read this PDF : http://macbeth.cs.ucdavis.edu/lang_study.pdf

[Stefano]

Well you are focusing on everything except technical things   

atm I'm just reading.. but I can't ignore the fact that in (almost) every post of yours you have an annoying  and controversial attitude

Let' see...if you could reply more technically.

I could and I will.. when you stop being annoying.. it's up to you

I don't really know your skill level but I would like to know your feedback of developper about this article:

May be you can't read this page http://www.developpez.com/actu/76979/Quel-est-l-effet-du-langage-de-programmation-sur-la-qualite-du-logiciel-Une-etude-tente-de-clarifier-la-situation/

I'm sorry.. no french on this side.. and in this forum we speak english only, tnks

but you could read this PDF : http://macbeth.cs.ucdavis.edu/lang_study.pdf

interesting.. I will take a look, thank you

[guest22]

This is no longer directly related to Koozali SME Server. Can you please take this discussion elsewhere?

As a matter of fact, I am fed up with these kinds of "fights". Go elsewhere please!

edited by Stefano: corrected bad tags as requested

[ReetP]

Xavier,

Kindly refrain from making generalisations that have no foundation.

Neither the Board nor any developers have made any decsionss at all regarding the server-mananager.

Yes there is a general consensus that we would like to update it.

Yes there is a general consensus that mojolicious might be a good potential candidate.

Beyond that, nothing else. We have few people and too much else to do.

When the time comes to discuss it fully we hope that people will contribute to both the debate and the code accordingly.

 Your suggestion about xml may be a good idea. But the corrtect place for that us the bug tracker.

A dev forum may be an idea and that will be discussed accordingly.

Note that as a Board we do take intelligent comments and suggestions seriously. We may not be able to act immediately due to the lack of manpower. It doesn't mean they are ignored. Your best chance of a positive response is a degree of civility, positive comments and some code from yourself to demonstrate your ideas. If you want something changed then help with some of the work, don't just tell others what they should be doing.

Don't bite the hand that feeds you....

Rgds
John

[CharlieBrady]

This is no longer directly related to Koozali SME Server.

H-F, general discussions about programming languages is not off-topic for this forum:

 "Discussions about contribs.org, Linux in general, and other topics that don't belong in the other forums."

[CharlieBrady]

I would like to use XML in SME Server in place of the plain text DB, ...

JSON and YAML would be other possibilities. If you can implement esmith::ConfigDB with a different backend format, then we could compare and contrast the different implementations. I think if you don't implement the esmith::ConfigDB API, then you are talking about a re-write from the ground up.

As John says, if you have a concrete proposal, the bug tracker is the place to plant the seed.